A lot of folks, they only do what they know. If they’ve only been exposed to one thing, then that’s all they do. If you’re going to do mixed used properties and they’re large, like the scale stuff that I do, you’re going to hit multiple market window over the life of the job. You have to put the same kind of attention into the team you’re building around you. And if you don’t do that, it’s a crapshoot. They’re afraid like everybody else to make certain steps and take certain risks. They just face them. They leverage it and they leap. They take the chance. Most people won’t. Success to me is just the ability to have the freedom to do the things that I want to do, spend it with the people I want to spend it with.

What’s going on guys? Welcome back to the REM podcast. Today we have Mark out of Delaware. Mark, I’d love to just jump in real quick and figure out how you got into real estate investing in the first place.

Sure. I started early in my life as a carpenter working for somebody else, ended up working my way through to senior executive positions, senior vice president roles on the operational branding, marketing, pre-construction related stuff, all for commercial mixed use ventures. And then I went into the real estate side of things and did the same thing. About a year, a year and a half later, I was running companies continental efforts. During that time, I was doing all this work for somebody else and I decided at some point that it was something that I needed to be doing for myself and started small. And here we are now, 10, 15 years later after starting things, I have seven companies, half of which are national brands and they’re all commercial mixed use endeavors. It was a passion for me. I loved the business from the start.

Awesome. And what was your life like before getting into real estate?

Just pretty ordinary. I came out of a household that I was abandoned as a child, was adopted later, ended up mediocre grades in school, didn’t go to university or anything like that. I did have a vision for myself overall, seeing myself doing what I’m doing today. Wasn’t sure how I’d get there. I just know I’d get there somehow and put a lot of time and effort into taking specific studies to help me advance myself to where I am. But from the time I got out of high school, I went into the military, spent four years there, got out of it and went right to work. And we talked briefly about what I did from there. I just started as a carpenter, worked my way through. Nothing exciting.

Gotcha. Gotcha. And then what does your main business look like today?

The main efforts is the company on the wall, Invincit Assets. It’s a commercial mixed use investment company. We invest in commercial mixed use across the country. There could be things like decommissioned hospitals and hotels, and I’ll turn it into something else. Large land development tracks, we’ll get them entitled for whatever the highest and best use is, not just for the property, but for the market windows we’re going to hit and develop the space out. And I hang on to just about all of it. I sell only what I need to to cash up for my needs for future investments. Out of it came all the other companies because I started with it and a marketing company to market for the brand itself. And in the middle of those efforts, I realized that there was a lot of other things that I could be capitalizing on that I let go for entirely too long.

We started tracking the leads, things that I was letting go and realized that for every one deal that I was chasing, for a variety of other avenues, I was letting go 15 to 20 leads that were just not in my vision at the time. Since then, we started tracking it and realized that there was something to it. And I’d build a team around each of those things and if they became profitable and turned them into companies and as luck would have it, they were all profitable. And so now I have a couple real estate funds, a debt fund and a equity fund for the purposes of raising capital to either provide loans to our ventures or to bring equity partners into the investments. The investment company itself, we have M Vincent and Associates, which is a realty brand, and we’re brokered by EXP Realty and EXP Commercial.

And I have two teams in six states, two in Delaware, Maryland, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, North Carolina, and Florida. And we’re expanding. The next two will be in Colorado and Texas where I have some fairly large ventures going on. I want to retain the commissions. I have a property management company, a property maintenance company, a steel building business that produces steel in 13 states and delivers it across the country. That one I bought so I can produce steel for myself at cost. And then that’s the only one that I didn’t start from scratch. I bought that one. And then I have the marketing company that generates leads for all of the companies. And we only do direct marketing to property owners that have the kinds of properties that I’m interested in buying that are at a particular kind of distress of some sort. About half residential, half commercial, and we hit about a half million properties a month in multimedia campaigns, cold calling.

And then that doesn’t count the stuff that goes out to the general public like radio ads, billboards and stuff like that.

Gotcha, gotcha. When it comes to buying that business to get, was it steel at cost? Was the process to buy the business easier than you thought it would be?

Yeah, that piece of it was much easier than I expected. I thought it was going to be a lot more difficult. As it turns out, it was a debt-free company and I was able to get my hands on it for an attractive price and it’s worked out pretty good.

Awesome. Cool. What was the problem that you were trying to solve when starting the first company?

Well, I’m a real estate guy. I’ve only done what I do, but I just did it for commercial in my commercial life. I mean, my corporate life before. So this is all I know. I just love it. I just stopped doing it for someone else. Started small like most people do, buying houses and flipping them and hanging on to some for rentals and so on and so on. But my roots are in commercial mixed use. Most people run in a single lane, so to speak. They either just do single family houses or they just do multifamily or they just do retail or just do office or whatever. I come from a world that allowed me to operate in all of the occupancy types in the commercial umbrella. Most of the time we had three or four occupancy types on the same venture, on the same piece of real estate in the same building.

And I did that primarily because we all hit market cycles. And if you only have one thing that you can do at the property and that’s all it’s zoned and approved for and it hits a market cycle that’s against you, you’re kind of messed up for three or four years until it starts to come back. So I wanted to always build extra lanes into the jobs. So you can imagine some people, their lane is one or two lanes and it’s just like a countryback road. My lane is more like the San Francisco Freeway and I run into center lane. Each lane is an occupancy type. And we have most of the occupancy types on the ventures that I do, generally three or four of them on each job. And when I’m working on a particular job and I’m running in the center lane call it retail and it takes a down cycle, I can just shift lanes and keep the rest of the project going because it’s got multifamily condos or apartments, office or some other uses, hospitality or something on it.

Because it’s rare that more than one thing is in a down cycle, at the bottom of a down cycle at one time. And this way, the jobs stay healthy.

Gotcha. Why do you think so many investors overlook that piece of it?

It’s big. There’s a lot of zeros on the contracts and it scares some people off. And I don’t mind that because it keeps them out of my playground, so to speak. But the folks that I generally come up against are bigger institutional folks. And I’m more agile than they are because I don’t have a bunch of corporate hoopla that I have to go through because it’s just me. I own the company, I make the decisions. But a lot of folks, they only do what they know. And if they’ve only been exposed to one thing, then that’s all they do. And that’s not a bad thing. It’s just I’ve been exposed to a different life and investment than some other folks have been. So it affords me the opportunity to do this. That’s all.

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What do you think the most common misconception is about what you offer?

I don’t know that there is a misconception. If it’s from an investment side, everybody’s under the impression that we do the highest and best use for the property, and that’s not really the case. A lot of people do that, but the most important piece of it is if you’re going to do mixed used properties and they’re large, like the scale stuff that I do, you’re going to hit multiple market windows over the life of the job. And you have to understand those market cycles and which cycles you’re going to hit during the life of the job. And they’re the things that you want to build into the occupancy types so the project has legs right from the beginning to the end. You don’t want to have a portion of a job, condos, another portion of apartments and that’s it and then residential tanks because it’s often when home sales are down, leasing is down at the same time.

They run in similar cycles, one right behind the other.

So if you don’t have the right kinds of things built into the job, you can go through a lot of effort. And some of these jobs, they’ll take three, four, five years to get to construction just through the entitlement process. And you go through all that and you’ll end up in a down cycle and you’ll have a dead job before it starts. So the biggest thing is, is that most people will look at a job and say, “This would be a great location for a retail center.” And that’s what they’ll do and they won’t pay any attention to the market cycles or the economics that are ahead of them because you can watch what’s happening out west. I’m on the East Coast. If you watch what’s happening in California, it nearly always, almost to the month, three years after what you see happening as a trend in California, you see it happening here on the East Coast.

Now, some areas will accelerate or be immune to the bubble, but in general, that’s what you see. So if you pay attention to those things that are happening out there, you can do a pretty good job of what’s planning for here. And if you’re doing stuff in other parts of the country, you’re just doing a prorated version of the timing that it takes to get you. If I’m doing something in Colorado, you take half the time to get there as it does to get here.

So that’s the thing that most people don’t really pay enough attention to beyond what they can do to the job is what market window you’re going to hit and what you’re planning and what you’re planning to do to the job, is the market going to be there to support it on the back end. It might be there today, but by the time you get through approvals, sometimes it’s a different market.

It definitely makes sense. Okay. It’s very interesting. I’ve never really heard many investors talk about it preemptively. They usually just do the build and then hope it’s the right time for it. The fact that you’re thinking about it preemptively is quite genius. I’ve never heard people really think about it beforehand.

Yeah. Makes all the difference.

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Again, that’s 10xtv.co. Cool. Quick question. Do you mind sharing maybe one or two key strategies or lessons that have been a big impact in your businesses?

Yeah. We all spend a lot of time doing due diligence on the job, right? That’s kind of part of the game, especially the bigger they are, the more due diligence you throw into it. The piece that I learned later after a couple costly mistakes is that you have to put the same kind of attention into the team you’re building around you. And if you don’t do that, it’s a crapshoot.

And I’ll give you an example. When I first left my corporate life to go into my personal endeavors, one of the first properties we did, I hired a team to go through and do the due diligence. And coming from where I come from, I know a lot about asking which questions to get the right answers to to make sure I’m uncovering any risks. I asked all the questions that I needed and got the answers that I needed to decide whether to go through with the venture or not, which I did, only to close on it and find out that the property was landlocked. And for those that don’t know what that means is you need legal access to your property. It’s either on a street and you have a general easement or it’s across somebody else’s property and you have an easement or a right of way through their property to the property you have.

Well, this one had easements, but the easements were written in a language that sounded like it was giving someone else permission to enter my property rather than to give me access across someone else’s to get to my own.

And I was told that they were ours. We had unrestricted access, nobody could take them from us and that we were clear to close. Well, we closed on it. It turned out to not be accurate. So we went through 18, nearly 24 months of legal battles, ended at Superior Court. I had to sue Wells Fargo for access because they had foreclosed on one of the properties in the middle of it all. So I had to put a lis pendens on the property, which forced them to work with me. And as luck would have it, they were the easiest to get along with because they wanted to unload the assets so they needed to get rid of me and had to get two more easements across two other properties just to get to my new purchase. And we went through all that and I got paid on a settlement and we did all right on the property, but it just was two years of a life that I could have put my time and attention and money into something else to get it all back.

So when it comes to building whatever it is you’re doing, everybody pays a whole lot of attention to what they’re building physically, but they don’t pay any attention to what they’re building with regard to their environment that they’re in, the team and the players and systems and everything else that they need to. They just kind of go out of old school and it leaves them exposed considerably. In this case, we learned a valuable lesson and since I put as much time and effort and due diligence into my people as I do into the job. So that’s a big one. And the other thing is, is that most people struggle with the persistence it takes to be successful in this. And if you have the right systems and the right software and everything in place, it only takes a little bit of time to set it all up and then the systems will be your persistence for you.

And if you can spend the time and effort and a little bit of money to do that, it’ll make you 10 times more successful in doing so. Most people just won’t do it. They think that’s $2,500 a month. How am I going to pay for that? And they don’t realize if you spend a $2,500, it will make you 10 times that. And if I could spend 2,500 and get 25,000 back, I’d do that 100 times a month.

So there are the two things really that people aren’t doing well that cause a lot of problems for them in their businesses.

Well, it seems like there’s a lot of people that call themselves real estate investors, and then there’s real estate investors and top operators. What do you think separates the top operators from people that are just in the real estate space?

It’s easy. They’re afraid like everybody else to make certain steps and take certain risks. They just face them. They leverage it and they leap. They take the chance. Most people won’t. And there’s sayings all over the place of things like, “In order to get what you want, you have to do things you’ve never done before.” And that couldn’t be more true. And most people just won’t do that. They’ll analyze situations to death. They’ll talk about, “If I can just get this, I’ll be ready. If I can just get that, I’ll be ready.” And they don’t understand, you never have 100% of what you need to make these leaps. The only thing you have to have is 100% belief in yourself that you’ll find the answer in the middle of it. Sometimes it’s the money you got to find, sometimes that you got to find the right relationship, sometimes it’s this, sometimes it’s that.

But if you’re good at what you do, you have to have faith in that. You can’t make a leap. Let’s say somebody who’s building houses, they can’t just jump into a $60 million commercial deal. They don’t have the relationships to back that up yet. That takes time. So you have to make sure that the leaps that you’re making are ones that are within reach, obviously.

The most people, they don’t have the discipline and when faced with the thing that makes them nervous or fearful, they won’t make the step. They just won’t do it.

Yeah. As far as mistakes go, I mean, I feel like there’s tons of mistakes you can make in real estate. What do you think the biggest mistake that real estate investors make that could be super easily avoided?

Marketing. They just don’t market. They’ll do a little bit of networking. For the smaller players, they’ll go to local RIAs or networking events and stuff like that. And they’re not focused on where they’re networking or marketing. They just sort of flock shoot, for lack of a better word. And they go to places that are surrounded or surround themselves by other beginners and they don’t have any of the answers that they’re looking for. So you have to network in the right ways and you have to market in the right places. And most people, they’ll try to market for a little bit, they’ll get a little bit of success, and then they’ll stop marketing so they can do the deal. And all that does is create a whole forum later. Marketing’s a never ending effort. You never stop it. It’s just one of those things you have to find a way to be doing it every minute of every day.

And that doesn’t mean you personally, but you put the systems in place that’ll do it for you so that you don’t have to, so that you can focus on running the jobs. You can focus on chasing money or you can focus on finding the right talent. But that’s the thing that most people really just don’t do well when it comes to business activities.

If you don’t have business, you don’t have a business. So if you’re not marketing for the business every second of every day, some way, somehow, all you do is create a hole. So let’s look at it from a residential standpoint. If somebody’s marketing for single family homes and they’ll go hire a cold caller or buy a list and send emails and texts or mailers or whatever, and they’ll land two or three homes, then they’ll turn the marketing off, do those two or three homes, and then they don’t have anything. Well, it takes anywhere from three to five months of constant marketing to have any kind of real data to decide to know that if I spend this amount of money, I can expect this number of deals. And if you stop spending that money, then you don’t have any deals coming your way. And they just create one hole in their operational side of themselves over and over and over again, all they do is struggle because every time they get a little bit of success, they stop marketing altogether and do the thing that they like, which is renovating the house or whatever.

But if they were to spend time figuring out how to set the systems up so they can set their marketing up, set it and forget it for four months. And when it comes up, it’ll send you a notice. This is ending. What do you want to do with it? You replace the list or put it on a different camp, change the campaign to something that’s longer term and then put a new list into the system and then start it all over again. You never want to stop doing it, but most people, they won’t. They just won’t do that piece. They’ll put a little bit of effort out, find a little bit of success, and then turn everything off just to go do the job. And that doesn’t work.

Yeah. Well, real estate’s definitely a marketing and sales business, that’s for sure, if you cut that off.

And if you do that with some of the bigger commercial stuff like what I’m doing, if you turn it off, you’re creating a hole for yourself two, three years out and you just don’t see it coming. But when it hits, it’s two or three years long that’s in the way because you waited too long to get another deal in a development cycle so that it’s filling the hole down that way. I got 13 projects going on at any given time and they’re all in different stages. If I were to stop doing that, at the end of two or three years, I’d have stuff to build, but I wouldn’t have anything else new coming on. And all that does is create a problem for yourself.

Yeah, 100%. When it comes to the word success, everyone’s got their own definition for it. How do you define success in your life and how are you striving to get there?

Success to me is just the ability to have the freedom to do the things that I want to do, spend it with the people I want to spend it with, do it for as long as I want to do it and anywhere that I want to do it. That’s really it. And sometimes that’s family, your kids and your spouse or whatever. Sometimes it’s giving back. I go around the universities and speak all over the place and I like to wake the young minds up to different ways of thinking about real estate. I was fortunate enough here recently, I spoke at the University of Temple and Fox here in Philadelphia to the real estate business course and they’re just a room full of really intelligent young minds. And the curriculum teaches them to think a certain way, which is good about the fundamentals of thinking about a deal, but it doesn’t really tell you how to approach anything.

So I like to go do that kind of stuff. And if my business can afford me the time to not be in my business all the time so I can be off doing that stuff, to me, that’s a sign of success. If you can leave your business in general and go do some stuff that you enjoy doing and the business doesn’t fall apart while you’re gone, that means you did the right kind of due diligence on your people, you brought the right people around you, you have the right systems in place and everybody who’s supposed to step up in my absence does what they’re supposed to do, that affords me the ability to go do whatever I want to do whenever I want to do it. To me, that’s success.

Awesome. I love that. I love that. What are the biggest changes that you’re seeing in real estate right now?

Well, the residential housing market, most can see that it’s slowing up a little bit. I don’t expect any big down cycle in it because we don’t have the same problems we did back in 2008, nine, 10, 11. We don’t have a huge abundance of projects or budgets of product available. So we’re just seeing a stabilization of prices. I don’t expect anything huge, but on the commercial side, we’re starting to see some differences. Office market’s been in a down cycle for a while. That’s starting to breathe life into itself, but it’s breathing life into itself at a bad time. If you remember back in 2020, 21 and 22, the federal government was given rates out to banks, loans to banks at ridiculously low rates, sometimes as low as minus quarter percent. They were literally paying the banks to take money.

For the purposes of giving loans to commercial ventures, that could be businesses and small business loans or whatever, or to commercial real estate transactions. Those loans were only good for five years, and then it’s like a residential arm mortgage. Once it’s over, it comes up to the new rate. We all know where the rates are today. They’re a little better now than they were a year ago, but if they’re coming from a minus quarter percent and they go to 7%, that cripples a lot of commercial jobs. And if you look at right now on the commercial lending side, if you look at all the big banks, they’re reporting in general very low single digit default loans. But if you go into those loans and look at the subsets of loans, residential loans versus retail versus this versus this versus this, there’s a couple of sections that are in defaults already in 20 to 30% default rates.

And those, what they’re calling the debt wall from these commercial loans given out in 2020 hasn’t even hit yet. That starts next year. It’s coming up on us. But if these people in the commercial side are in that kind of trouble already, you can imagine what’s going to happen to them next year when their rates adjust up from what they were back in those times from a minus quarter percent to one and a half, 2% up to today’s rate. If they’re struggling now, they’re not going to be able to survive next year or the next year or the next year as those loans that were given out, those times mature. So we’re starting to see a lot of that come on the line. People anticipating that the smarter players are seeing it and they’re either refinancing themselves for better rates now to not get stuck, or they’re trying to sell the asset before they’re messed up.

But whoever’s coming in isn’t assuming a loan, so they’re going to start out fresh anyway. But they’re finding a little bit of struggle because the numbers that they’re running on were projects that were a bit over leveraged because they took a job because of the low interest rates that they were able to use

Instead of what a normal rate should have been calculated on so that when things like this happen, it didn’t hurt them and they make less profit, but they don’t get hurt.

So we’re seeing a lot more of that across the country, which is the kind of stuff that my companies we chase. I don’t buy retail stuff. We’re not an institutional investor. I go buy stuff with the intent to make money with the money. So when people invest in us, whether they’re doing it in the form of a loan or they’re doing it in the form of an equity participation position with us, my goal is to take whatever that venture is and turn it into immediate money, more money and making money immediately. So we buy with the intent that no matter what it is that I’m doing at the moment, whatever the terms and conditions I can buy it for at the moment, the job has to underwrite for the worst case conditions. And we do that on every venture. And that way, if worse comes to worse and we get stuck in a position like some of these folks are right now, we can just keep going.

We’re just doing it at lesser margin, which is still an attractive margin because I don’t go after stuff that’s mediocre. I’ll give you an example. One of the ventures that I have is we’ve been asked, my collection of companies has been asked to source 50 locations, five zero from the realty company. My development and investment company is part of the venture to develop and build all 50 locations. The asset management company will run it. The maintenance company won’t maintain it until stabilized and the stuff that’s in our region will keep control of the management and the stuff that’s outsourced. We’ll do a JV with somebody that’s not in our backyard and there are five plus acre sites each, 55,000 square foot each, all pediatric related medical arts, every therapeutic area for pediatric, including dentists and oral surgery. The doctors that I’m doing this with have the national network of doctors that will take up 70% of the space.

So we have occupancy, we have the leases secured to stabilize the asset before we even start. The 30% that’s left will hold in reserve for partnerships with the local hospital systems so they can do walk-in clinics and outpatient surgery that are more serious sort of things that regular therapeutic areas can’t handle on an emergency basis. So using that one as an example, those 50 locations, the first one’s here in Northern Delaware, which is sort of the average cost of real estate, the average cost of construction, cost of management, materials, labor, all that stuff is sort of the national average here, give or take a little bit. So if we use that one as an example, realizing that if we do one in Miami, the numbers will be very different. And if we do one in some place like Kentucky, it’ll also be very different.

This building’s going to cost us on average $35 million to acquire the real estate, get it through the entitlement, get it built and carry the asset until it’s stabilized at 70% occupancy. The building at that point is worth $65 million. So there’s $30 million in equity on average per job. So the capital that we’re raising for that one is pretty attractive package. That That deal’s simple. We’ve got financing in place for the entire package, but they want an eight and a half million dollar shorty on the first job. That eight and a half million dollar shorty sits behind my payment performance bond on the construction management that’s part of my development efforts. So that’s the second shorty. It’s behind another wall. It sits in escrow for 36 months in the form of a CD, which is only getting four, four and a half percent. At month 37, the investors get their eight and a half million dollars back.

They get the half a million dollars, give or take in interest. And then they get the attractive part of the package. They get 15% of the ownership on the first building, which entitles into 15% of the $30 million, which is four and a half million dollars, and 15% of the net revenue after debt service. Those numbers we’re still working on. But if we stick with just the equity for a moment, they also are entitled to 10% ownership on the next 49 buildings. So they get eight and a half in, eight and a half out. They get half a million dollars in interest on the 36 months, and they get ownership, four and a half million on the first building, $3 million on the next 49 plus 15% of the first, 10% of the next 49 of the net operating income after debt service. Just the equity side, eight and a half million dollar investment, and they’re getting $150 million out in equity alone over the lake of the project.

That’s insane.

So that’s an example of the kind of things that we’re doing at the moment.

Gotcha. That’s awesome. That’s awesome. If you were going to restart from scratch today, you keep your knowledge, but all the businesses are gone. Where would you start first? Or what would you focus on?

Yeah, the biggest thing that I would do is I’d spend more time and effort creating the relationships to raise the capital earlier. I started after my corporate life in smaller jobs because the people that I had relationships with couldn’t fund 50, 60, 70, 80 million dollar jobs. They were just smaller. So I got a stack of 50 plus investors that are individuals of high net worth that invest in me now, but they’re smaller players. They’ve been ideal. They’re perfect for what I do on a smaller level, but when I start doing bigger stuff, I need them all on one job and all their money has to be available at the same time. And when you’re dealing with private money, that’s not always the case. So when that happens, if their money’s available, I can put it to use and there’s all the securities that they get in the process of doing that.

But when I give it back to them, and before I ask to use it again, often they put it to use somewhere else and I have to wait my turn for it to come back. So when you’re dealing with small capital that doesn’t work real well on the bigger jobs, I would put a lot more effort into these funds that I have now. I would’ve started them much earlier and I would’ve raised the capital in a different way. On a prospectus based on, we’ll invest the money on this certain prospectus. We won’t do anything that’s below this and this is the kind of returns that you can expect to get to projected returns. And that’ll happen either in the form of an interest rate or it’ll happen in the form of an equity position and this is what it’ll look like. So in that case, we get all the soft commitments and then when we need the money, we do the capital call and then they put the money into the fund and then we buy the asset.

Rather than finding the asset, getting it under control, putting the deal together while I’m in entitlements, chasing the money.

It’s a different level of stress as you can imagine, but we’re successful. We’ve been hugely successful doing it for a while now, but that’d be the one thing that I would do very different is I’d find all the capital in

Advance. Where have you found to be the best place to find capital, that size of capital?

Well, it’s like anything else. Whatever you want to do, you have to network for it. People aren’t going to know who you are and they’re not going to invest in you unless they know you for a little bit and they’re comfortable investing money, especially the kind of money we’re talking about. It’s not like you walk up to somebody on the street and you run into the owner of NutraSuite and he says, “Here’s a $30 million check.” That just doesn’t happen. So you have to know these people for a minute and you got to create the relationships with them. They have to see the business model work and all that other sort of stuff. But if you’re not networking in the right places, you’re wasting your time. So that happens in a variety of places. We do a lot of social media outreach because you just can’t beat the exposure.

We have been successful in getting regional and national awards from an entrepreneurial mindset in commercial mixed use application. We have media all over the place. We’re on podcasts all over the place. I have a documentary coming out about me. The podcast was just released for it that’ll be out here in the next week or two. All this national and international exposure puts me in front of people that allows me the opportunity to connect with new people and create those relationships. But the best way really to do it is wherever the money likes to hang out, you have to find yourself in those places and not just once or twice, all the time. And it’s just one of those things that you have to put the same kind of due diligence into chasing a deal. You have to put the same kind of due diligence into who and where you want to network.

You don’t show up at an event that’s all beginners and hope to find big investors. You have to show up where the bigger players are and create those relationships and it takes a little time.

Yeah, for sure. Well, awesome. Where can people find more about you? Where can people connect with you if they want to reach out and learn more? Yeah.

I’m on all the social medias as Mark Vincent Fansler like it is on the screen. That’s my number on the screen. They can reach me there. You can Google the name. I own the first 20 pages of Google. I’m everywhere. You can’t miss me. All the websites have our emails and phone numbers on it, but you can find most of our information on mvincentassets.com. That’s the main company. It has just some of the current ventures on it. I don’t put everything on it because what we do is really it’s not everybody’s business. I try to be pretty private with that stuff, but there’s enough on there to let you know what we’re about. And as far as any research anybody wants to do on this, they can … I’m about as background as much as the president. Between all my realty licenses and my concealed carry permits and all the other licenses that I have, I’m background check to death.

We’re clear. I got a great reputation. The one thing you won’t find about us when you search is bad press, bad reviews or any of that kind of stuff because we care a lot about who we are and how we treat people. And it shows because as long as we’ve been in business, everything you’ll find about us is clean.

Awesome. Awesome. Well, guys, thank you so much for watching. Mark, thank you so much for coming on and giving us your time, and we’ll see you on the next one.