#11 The Power of New Construction with Leo Clark
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Itunes – www.TonyJavier.com/itunes
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Guest Bio: Leo Clark is a seasoned real estate investor. He has been investing for about 10 years. Now. He’s a speaker educator, real estate investor, and specializes in new construction. He’s got hundreds of deals under his belt and has a ton of knowledge and experience to share.
More about him – www.TonyJavier.com/leoclark
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Show Transcription:
Tony (00:05):
Welcome today. We’ve got Mr. Leo Clark. Leo Clark is a real estate investor. He has been investing for about 10 years. Now. He’s a speaker educator, real estate investor, and specializes in new construction. He’s got hundreds of deals under his belt. He’s a veteran even, uh, just with, uh, being in the business last 10 years. He left the corporate world after 28 years, I believe at his old corporate job. So welcome Leo. How you doing, buddy?
Leo (00:36):
Excellent. How about you, Tony?
Tony (00:37):
Doing good, man. Doing good. Rocking and rolling. So what’s going on with you, man? So, you know yeah, you do new construction. So there’s not a lot of people in our space that do ground up. So I guess tell us how you got started and why you chose that niche.
Leo (00:53):
Well, it wasn’t a matter of getting into it. It transitioned, I transitioned my business. So when I started my business in the heyday of buying Oreos, um, 2009 to 2010, you know, hundreds, if not thousands of properties throughout Southern California, dealing with asset managers. So buying a lot of properties, distressed properties, bank owned properties, and rehabbing them and selling them. And as that timeline went through, you know, all those homes, it started getting into, you know, construction pieces of it, not just a simple rehab, you know, put it back together and make it look pretty and sell, adding square footage, you know, dealing with certain aspects of construction. So I started gaining knowledge behind construction. And then in 2012, I basically put it out there that I wanted to build homes. And so I got my very first lot that was basically graded and certified head water meter paid electrical meter onsite. All you had to do was buy it, do a few little things, build it and sell. So that was my very first lot in 2012, got hooked because we sold it five months and three weeks later, could you not bought it in October? Sold it in April and literally the profit margin, the spread, the percentage of what we made on that versus what we were making on rehabs in the same length of time I was hooked. So then I just started transitioning from building one home into building multiple. So right now in my pipeline, there was 11 homes in my pipeline, three coming out of the ground right now of that 11 four, right behind that. So yeah, I transitioned to becoming an infill developer in San Diego County.
Tony (02:44):
Nice. So for, so tell us a little bit about that. So a lot of people like rehabbing because it’s a lot quicker, they feel like, right? So within, you know, 60 days typically they can rehab project. So going from a 60 day rehab to a five month deal, I guess, tell us what the big differences between the two different methods between new construction and rehabbing the current building.
Leo (03:09):
It’s, it’s the process through the cities and the utility companies. And you know, all the uncontrollable factors in a rehab, there is a lot you can control, you know, you control your acquisition, you control what you do to the home, but when you’re going through a process with a city or any other entity out there that controls what they want from you, it’s a whole different ball game. So doing one home was pretty, I wouldn’t say simple and easy, but it was much quicker than doing what we now know as infill development, because I’ll take a parcel like this Lamesa one bought the house that sat on two acres, cut up the land rehab, the house sold the house and now building three homes. So that started out as a rehab purchase acquisition, but it came with land, right? Same with my lemon Grove project. So I look at a home in multiple exit strategies than most do. So from the standpoint of, do I take the home, do I rehab it and sell it or do I take the home, cut it up, then build then rehab. I mean, there’s multiple exit strategies that I utilize cause like my lemon Grove property, uh, we have a renter in that home. That’s been paying the rent, you know, we’re going on two and a half years or so. Um, so we get a renter in the home as we go through the process with the city. So I approach it from multiple exit strategies on what, as far as profit goes, what is the best way to go? And you’re, I don’t know about anything out of California, but in California, you’re in a city or County, that’s going to control that process timeline with what they want.
Tony (04:55):
Yeah. And that’s one thing you obviously need to look at is not only timelines but costs cause both of those in California can be a lot. I mean, it can be, I’ve heard projects taken a year to two years sometimes to get approved because they’re on the coastal commission and you know, those kinds of things. So that’s probably something to look at. And I think one of the other great things about new construction is you’ve already got the floor plan. So as long as you’ve done that floor plan before, and you do it again, you know what it looks like, you know what finished, you know, you’ve got basically the blueprint just to throw on that piece of land. Right, right. So that’s obviously a benefit as well.
Leo (05:29):
Yeah. The one house that’s involved with this three home development in Lamesa, I’ve built one of them five times. It’s a no brainer. We already know the costs. You know, it, it isn’t like Holy cow, what, I’m at 360 on the bill, you know, six months ago, depending on lumber and concrete costs, you know, fluctuations, I might be at 370. I might be at 350 because lumber and concrete are the ones that fluctuate the, so when you’re dealing with bids or when you’re dealing with anything with multiple structures, your concrete in your lover or your biggest aspects of fluctuation.
Tony (06:07):
Right, right. Yeah. And we talked a little bit ago about, um, kind of, I guess I’ve termed it as whole tailing land. So when you said you bought the one in 2012, they’ve already bought it. They’d permitted it. So in California it’s a different beast. Right? In Kansas. If we bought a piece of land, we could probably build within a week or two. I mean, it’s, it’s pretty simple. Right. So California, it could be months or, you know, a year or more as though in, in places where it’s really tough to permit properties, um, or it can be a lengthy costly process. What would you say your reason for building on those pieces of land instead of taking those pieces of land, getting them permitted to where they can build and then selling them off, like some people have, uh, to you.
Leo (06:53):
Yeah. I set out to, um, build a legacy. Um, I want to be recognized in San Diego as a, you know, a developer home builder, you know, not a KB home guy or dr. Horton guy or anything like that. But I want to be recognized in San Diego as a home builder, I want to have something a hundred years from now, someone living in it or buying it. And I created that. That’s my, my drive. So I’m building for my company and myself. I’m building that legacy if you will. So yeah, I could sell off certain. And there was a parcel that I did by a tax lien was undecided what to do with it. It was 44 acres in Northern California. We passed our marijuana laws and I sold it to a marijuana farmer. So made really good money on it, but had the intention of looking at cutting it up into, you know, two acre parcels. And then we pass the law on, you know, legalizing marijuana. So I sold it to a marijuana farmer and he was excited to get it through price I sold it to them that, because at that time, when we were transitioning from being illegal, illegal land was way up there. And so I had an, a very rock bottom price.
Tony (08:17):
Right. Cool. So where do you find most of your deals? Um, is it, you know, you probably hear about other traditional methods of finding a fix and flip time houses. Is it the same, same way? Is it different? Like tell us a little bit about how you, how you acquire these properties.
Leo (08:32):
For lead generation. I’ve had so many different streams of lead generation. I’ve done anything from the mailers and the cards and the letters I’ve done, the texting, I’ve done the voicemail. So a lot of different ways I’ve got about, but right now it’s my contacts. Everybody knows what do and what I’m looking for. And I’m not kidding. Just was on the phone and looking at four projects that were emailed to me today. So my lead generation is based off of the months or years that I’ve been networking throughout the state and other States. So for the most part, it’s via contacts right now, my network.
Tony (09:18):
Right. And when you close on deals, you, you, you put properties on the contract, you close on them, people see you, you follow through, you provide a good product. They start, they keep bringing deals to you, right. Because you know, real estate has a, you know, kind of a connotation with, you know, those that don’t are, don’t do things above board, right. So I’m not saying there’s necessarily a lot of them, but there are a lot of them. Um, so, you know, that’s one big thing that I’ve tried to do over the last 20 years. If I say I’m going to do something, if I say able to close on a property, but close on it. I think that’s the biggest thing with trust. And once you build that trust with realtors, with developers, they’re going to bring you the deal over someone else that maybe even if they have the money, uh, if they, if they haven’t followed through, like you have, um, they’re gonna bring the deal to you first. Right?
Leo (10:08):
I started right out of the gate with me. Cause you know, in the corporate world for almost 30 years, your reputation is, you know, how you go forward building what you build or how you grow your career. So when I first started with the REO space and all the asset managers, if I made an offer, I wasn’t backing out, I’ve added 240 or 4 homes. I’ve only backed out of one. So from that standpoint, whoever’s, you know, watching your show here, you, you gotta put it in place in and know that you’re going to close, move forward and live up to what it is you say you’re going to do. Otherwise. A lot of people just don’t want to be around people that can’t live up to what they said I’ll do. And yeah, I started out out of the gate with that.
Tony (11:01):
Real estate word spreads quickly. So if you do something, you know, in the real estate industry, especially in a smaller town, even a bigger town, even like San Diego, I mean, it can get around pretty quickly. So, um, so tell me about some of your biggest learning lessons. So, you know, the thing with, with business is you can almost learn and you probably learn more from other people’s mistakes than you maybe do those successes. So what are some things that you did that you would, I guess, shed light on that would help other people to not make certain mistakes?
Leo (11:33):
Well, no matter what the project is, there’s no project that’s going to go without mistakes or without something being overlooked. There’s no perfect process per se. You can have perfect intentions and you can have a perfect plan on paper, but there’s always going to be things that come up, always some of my learning curve or some of my learning, um, aha moments, if you will, um, hiring the right guy to do the right job without I learned that a long time ago, you got to hire that guy or girl either way that is going to do what it is that they are specialized in or good at one of the two. Um, I hire now and it’s been going on for years. I hired general contractors and I let the general contractors hire the subcontractors. So from the standpoint, if somebody’s rehabbing a home, you don’t really need to go hire a GC because you’re going to pay the management fee behind that. So you become the project manager, you become the GC, if you will. So you’ve got to get the right subcontractors doing the right work and not handyman, not a handyman, you know, running electrical lines or plumbing or anything like that. You’re after that plumber, that electrician, that cabinet guy, that tile guy, that flooring guy. So I learned that a long time ago, hire the right guy for that right job for it. There’s a book out there, you know, um, Oh shoot. It just went blank on it. Right Seat on the bus. And so from that standpoint, the right person in the right seat is what you’re after. Right? Another big factor is structuring the deal. Um, learn a long time ago, how to structure it, where it’s advantageous for both the contractor, me, private lender, hard money, lender, whatever. So structuring the deals are truly what helped me progress into multiple projects. And then another lesson, the third one collaboration for anybody that’s listening, that’s new or kind of in the middle or trying to build your business, collaborate, collaborate, collaborate. Um, like if Tony and I, he knows me, I know him. He’s in Wichita, I’m in San Diego. He has a project. He wants funding or he wants to collaborate. I would go and join forces. If you will collaborate, move forward on a project. Collaborations are powerful. Um, it enabled me to do a lot of projects at one time. So those three areas is kind of what I’ve learned over the years to help me grow my business.
Tony (14:23):
And I think the first thing you said about hiring the right people, that’s super key. I mean, I I’ve, you know, I’ve got a business that I only work a few hours a week in my real estate business. And it is because I have the right people and I have the right people that attract other right people. So, you know, from a standpoint of employees, you hire those right employees that are going to attract the right people into your business. You hire the right contractors, they’re going to do the right things. Early in my career. I would say for the first or 10 years, I just found the cheapest deal. I mean, that’s just, that’s just what I did. It was like 12 bucks an hour. Okay. Let’s go, Oh, you know, now, now I might, you know, one of my guys, I paid 20, I think 25 bucks an hour too, a, one of my maintenance guys. I just have a couple of maintenance guys and just like UI sub all about all of the other stuff out. And if you would’ve told me 10 years ago, I’d pay someone 25 bucks an hour payroll and provide a van forum and you know, all these songs and be like, you’re crazy. But that guy does the work of two to three people. He shows up. He’s been with me for, I think eight years now. And it’s just amazing. I don’t have to worry about, you know, I, I haven’t even taught, I’ve talked to him probably a handful of times the last couple of years, just because my team manages them and I don’t have to step in and be a part of it. So it’s, it’s amazing that not only just that person doing a good job, but the domino effect of them attracting other people.
Leo (15:44):
And, and the one thing you’ll see, um, cause I get in the classes I do are the bulk of my classes are hiring contractors in the contracts that go with hiring a contractor. Cause every contractor I hire, I have my contracts that I put in place with that individual. So I protecting myself. There are seven contracts that I put on. I don’t care if it’s a building, a home, rehabbing a home, I don’t care what it is. Make sure you’ve got the contracts in place because the contracts are kind of your salvation. And some of them can be very viable and you know, protecting your backside If something were to go wrong. So the contracts are very important as well as when you get that right contractor, if it’s an electrician, a plumber or drywall or whoever, it may be pay them, right. Paying them on time and make sure, that they are the guy to continue forward with you. And it’s you’re after the relationship, you’re not after them giving you the best price you’re after the relationship. So here, mr. Contractor, ms. Contractor, here’s my project. Here’s what I can afford to pay you. Do you want to do one or do you want to do 100? Which way do you want to go? So I learned that a long time, long time ago, um, pay them well, pay them on time, make sure they do the right job. Make sure they live up to their word as you live up to yours and establish that relationship and carry it forward. My electrician today is the same electrician I had in 2010 and those guys, you just don’t want to lose.
Tony (17:32):
Yeah. But even if you have to pay them a little bit more, it’s a lot better than having to search for new ones and having to stay on top of them and having to ask them why they’re not doing something. And yeah it’s a game changer. Once you get a greater, I’ve had for eight years, my electrician now 10, my plumber, uh, seven, Uh, my framer, um, six years now. So my key key contractors been with me a long time.
Tony (18:00):
Yeah. Cool. So I’m gonna ask you the $10,000 question. If someone gave you 10,000 bucks and said, spend this wisely, you’ve got to spend it on something. What would you spend that $10,000 on to get the most return?
Leo (18:15):
Me personally or…..
Tony (18:17):
personally, professionally doesn’t matter where it is. If you said 10 grand. And so it said, do something with it and do the best you can. What would you spend it on?
Leo (18:26):
I would invest it in one of two things, depending on what it is that the individual I’m investing in is going to do for me because that 10,000 can either create a hundred thousand for me, or it can create a bunch of knowledge for me. One of the two. So am I investing in knowledge or am I investing in an ROI of capital?
Tony (18:51):
Yeah. Give us both.
Leo (18:52):
So an ROI of capital 10 grand, you know, in eight years is going to double itself. If I’m getting 12%, if I’m getting higher, the course it’s doubling itself quicker. Knowledge can never go away. Once mine is expanded, can never contract back to its original size. So if I’m wanting to invest that 10 grand in me, knowledge for me right now, yes, I would. If that was where I needed to be in order to gain more knowledge like right now, as I transition from building single family to building multifamily, I’m going to go through another learning curve. I want to go through some education. So right now I’d probably take that 10 grand and start looking at who I wanted to go out there and, you know, collaborate with or mentor me if you will, as a multifamily builder, because I don’t want to go and make mistakes that they’ve already made, that they can teach me not to make. So yeah, it’s either capital or knowledge, which, which do you need right now today.
Tony (20:00):
So tell us about knowledge. what things do you invest in knowledge wise?
Leo (20:03):
I’m in two masterminds right now. I’ve been in five total. Masterminds are powerful. Um, depending on what you need for the knowledge, once you’ve got that need fulfilled, then you’re looking to escalate and your like, you’re looking to move to the next level. So that group, or that mastermind did its job per se. And it served the purpose for you gaining the knowledge that you were after that time. So yeah, I’ve now been in five masterminds. I’m the two I’m in right now. One is for developers, um, land surveyors, big builders. There’s a guy, who’s a project manager for KB homes in it and it’s a small group and then another one’s marketing. Um, so from the standpoint of those two groups, it’s helping me build my knowledge in the areas that I need knowledge in.
Tony (21:01):
Yep. And when you surround yourself with the people that are doing the same things, I think like you said, you get to learn from them. You get inspired. Like to me, I get inspired. Like when I like I run my mastermind events, right. And then I go to masterminds and I invest in them as well. And any time I’m in one of those meetings, it could be a three to four hour meeting. Sometimes I’ve been in for two days, I just get inspired by what they’re doing. I mean, when you get in the right room, you see what people are doing. It’s like, Oh man, I can’t believe this person’s doing that. Or man, I didn’t even think about that. And you just get all these ideas and inspiration. So you’re, you’re absolutely right. I think getting in front of people that are doing great things is the best money that you can spend because they are going to amplify whatever it is you’re doing. You know? Um, first mastermind I joined, there was a guy doing a thousand deals a year, you know, so I was doing, I think at the time 60 deals a year, 70 deals a year, whatever it was. And I thought I was kind of a big fish. And then it’s like, Holy crap, this guy’s doing a thousand deals. And all of a sudden, your mind just expands to what the possibility is. Right? And then from there just kinda kind of amplifies. So
Leo (22:12):
No doubt. So we all in this industry, um, in our profession, we all need knowledge and we all need every one of us need to be striving for something at a different level than what we’re at. Um, because as they say, you’re only as good as your last project. You know, if you don’t continue to fill your pipeline, uh, you will sit idle or you will be falling behind the curve or you will be maybe even out of business, if you don’t understand the aspects or the, the whole dynamics of scaling and growing, uh, we as entrepreneurs don’t want to sit idle, um, you know, this whole lockdown shutdown, COVID thing, hasn’t slowed me down, not one second. Um, and for the most aspect behind that, it’s due to construction all these construction workers. They don’t want to be sitting at home. They want to be making money. So construction during this whole lockdown process has taken off. It is continuing to grow. So I want to scale my business every year. I already know I’m going to be next year already. We’re going to be in 2022. So for anyone listening through this or on this, look at how you’re going to scale your business, where are you going to be at one year, from now three years from now, five from now? And that’s what I always look at.
Tony (23:49):
You know, there’s a saying that Tony Robin says, he says people, what does he say, overestimate overestimate, what they can do in a day, but they underestimate what they can do in a lifetime. I mean, you know, if you look at it from 5 to 10 year chunks of, of, of times throughout your life, just look at how much has been accomplished. I mean, if I look back five years ago, I’m like, Holy crap. If I knew that I’d be doing what I did, what I’m doing now five years ago, specially 20 years ago. So that’s a really good point. It’s like envision what you want. You know, not only now, but five years down the road and you can even reverse engineer that. And again, look back five years ago where you were. And if you’re, you know, you’ve been, you know, a person that’s been into growth and development and have done some things, you’re going to look back five years ago. Wow, I’ve come a long way.
Leo (24:42):
And the biggest thing behind this, and this is why I do what I do. Um, I want to, I made a promise to myself when I left that career position. Uh, I wasn’t going to be controlled by somebody dictating my hours or my pay or my responsibilities. So I left that all behind me and started my own business. And it took me from the day I started, which right at the end of all, nine coming into 2010, I started making offers right around January, February of 2010, took me 337 offers to get my first acceptance.
Tony (25:25):
And you tracked that 337 offers.
Leo (25:27):
337. I made 75 offers in one weekend.
Tony (25:31):
Wow.
Leo (25:32):
But keep in mind, it was a different, you know, dynamics in, we had thousands of Oreos. Every monday I would get a list of 1100 properties on it. You want to buy 1100 properties there they are. So, um, they can offer after offer after Offer and took me 337 offers to get my first one accepted. And a lot of people ask, why did you just keep going? Because I’m going to build my business. I got out of the corporate world to start my own corporate entity. And so many people don’t think of that because if you look at, um, some of the people that are big names out there, Warren Buffett, what’s the difference between Warren Buffett or you Tony, or me aside from the money. Aside from the Years of experience, he started somewhere. And when he started with his Physician and he started with his company, same with all the other big ones. They had no idea where they would Ended up 30 years down the road, but they knew where they would be next year, the year after, After a year after they knew that they were going to grow their business. And that’s something that so many entrepreneurs fail to look at the, they don’t treat it like a corporation. They don’t treat it like they’re the CEO of a company. And there’s where a lot of them fail.
Tony (27:00):
Yeah. Speaking of a company, I mean, companies are built on, we talked about people, but I think the other big thing is systems. You know, what, what kind of systems do you feel like were software or any kind of automation do you have in your business that you feel like would be really hard to do without?
Leo (27:20):
Well, I started with Podio with several aspects of my business and then went to investor carrot. Um, and that helped me with several aspects of what I do. Um, lead generation for anybody out there, lead generations, the key factor to our business. So tracking your leads, you gotta have something, some CRM to track what you’ve got going out, what you’ve got coming in, who said what? And when and where, and just all of that. So I had Podio then investor carrot, and still use that on and off either one, but you still have to have the bookkeeping side. So I hired a CPA. I’m not going to do my own books. So I haven’t had my CPA since day one. So I feed everything off paperwork-wise and they build my P and L’s on each project. So I don’t do that. So from systematizing something I send off again, the right person for the right job, CPA is, is who you got to have possibly a tax attorney is who you gotta have. Those aspects. Someone takes care of it. I don’t have to worry about, they send me exactly where we stand on, what’s going on. And that way I don’t have to deal with it. Marketing side, systematizing marketing, systematizing, how you do whatever you’re going to do, whether it’s mailing mailers cards, recorded, voicemails texts, somebody has to do that and track it. So there’s the tracking systematize side. And then there’s actual doing systematize side because I’m not going to go label a thousand postcards in my house, and I’m going to hire a mail house to do that. So you get the right mail house, you get the right marketing piece and you get the right program to track what you do. And like they say, you know, your KPIs, you monitor those and you monitor what it is that you’re spending money on whether or not it’s producing a return for you. And then you begin to build more systems around that base. So, yeah, that’s kind of where I started to evolve my company and my business with those three areas because I didn’t want to do them. So I had to have systems or something in place to have it done.
Tony (29:51):
Yeah. Outsourcing is a big thing, Especially, I mean, people say I don’t have employees, or I don’t have this, or I don’t have that. I mean, these days, there are so many easy ways to outsource. If you can’t find, go to upwork.com, uh, if you need bookkeeping, you know, you can pay a hundred, 200 bucks a month sometimes just for, for minor stuff that, you know, th that allow you to free up your time to do the things that you need to do, like making phone calls and working on the marketing and all of that. In fact, when you and I met, um, I can’t remember how long ago it was. It’s been what three, four, five years ago, close to five. And so when I met you, I, I, I think I had like 15 employees. And you, I think you had a small team and you were doing, you know, decent, a good amount of projects. And I’m like, how do you have a, such a small team? And you mentioned how you outsource and you’ve got people to do this and that. And then our businesses are different obviously. But, um, you know, I really kind of took that. And, and I realized that now it’s not about the size of your team. In fact, if you can do more deals with a smaller team, it’s way more efficient, I’ve scaled down quite a bit from those employees and outsource a lot more things, but you don’t have to have a large team to do a good deal. So you just have to have good people that are, that are managing what you’re doing, super efficient, the more efficient you can be. I mean, people, you know, people look at numbers and say, well, I do this many deals and I’ve got this many employees, and that doesn’t mean anything, you know, unless your bottom line shows that, and you know, your, your workload shows that, right. Cause if you’re working 80 hours a week and you’ve got a hundred employees doing or doing a hundred deals with, you know, 15 employees, and then, you know, but if you’re, I know guys that are doing, you know, 20, 30 deals make it as much as those guys doing a hundred plus deals and they’ve got one or two operators in their business. And, uh, it’s just, you know, in times in times, you know, that are tough, which I think we’re coming into some tougher times, uh, when you’ve got a bigger staff, man, it’s, it’ll take a toll on you. I know some big guys right now doing big volumes that are hurting right now.
Leo (32:04):
And that was something I manage 330 something odd employees at one time. And there were times that I would have to lay someone off due to sales volume. You know, they, you know, salesraise all ships, you know, as they say. So when that wasn’t there and having to lay someone off, I saw that impact them and you know, what happened to them in their life. And I really made it an effort when I left the corporate that I wasn’t going to have that happen ever again. Like I’m, you’re responsible for lend somewhat off at Christmas time due to a lack of something. So yeah, at 10 99, just about everybody. Yeah. They’re responsible. And you know, you can be a bonus structured business, you do this, you get this. So from the standpoint of hiring somebody today, if I had to build a team of five or 10 people, they would all be bonus driven people. You go out and do what is required for you to go do. And here’s what you will be paid 10 99.
Tony (33:19):
Yeah. There’s stuff I like to keep in house. You know, I’ve got quite a few rentals. So I like keeping that in house because I’ve had other management companies, you know, manage properties and I’ve never found a really good property manager over 20 years. So there are things that you do want to keep in house. There are things that, um, you know, you may want to have at least one assistant, so you have that person on call to give stuff to, but at the same time, like I said, I mean, there’s people on Upwork that will work hourly as needed sometimes and take on a few hours here and there, we don’t have to commit to 30, 40 hours a week for an employee.
Leo (33:55):
I have three VA contacts that I’ve used for nine years now. So like right now I’m designing this one project and doing renderings. So pass that off to one of my VA’s and they’re getting my renderings done for me at a really good price. Um, there are all in, and I think if you pay, if everybody pays attention to what’s going on in today’s world, it doesn’t require, uh, running a business. Doesn’t require a lot of bodies. It requires the right bodies, but not a lot of them. And so you can run. If you’re extremely efficient, you can run a good business, profitable business with low headcount.
Tony (34:43):
Yup. No doubt about it. No doubt about it goes back to quality people, right? Yep. But cool. So we’re going to wrap it up here. Uh, anything else that you want to, uh, share?
Leo (34:55):
Just for all your listeners are in followers. If, if there’s something they need help in, you know, I’m wide open, I’m transparent. I’m reachable find me on Facebook and find me on LinkedIn. For the most part, a lot of people try to do everything themselves and, you know, that’s the whole thing you got to get rid of or get out of, you know, fire yourself as quickly as possible, um, get out of your own way as they say. So yeah. If anyone needs help, anyone needs some kind of guidance, direction, connection, reach out, you know, I’m easy to find.
Tony (35:33):
Awesome. Yeah. Leo in San Diego runs a group and, does a lot of great education and gives back. And that’s something I’ve really respected about Leo over the years. So, uh, appreciate your time, Leo and your experience in everything you do, man. We’ll look forward to continuing the relationship and, uh, let me know if there’s anything I can do to help you as well.
Leo (35:53):
You’re welcome. Thanks Tony.
Tony (35:54):
Alright. Thanks buddy. Talk to you soon.
Leo (35:56):
Alright. You too.
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