They do see us on TV usually first and then they go research us and then we’re capturing and following up and doing all of that stuff. So I would say you have to have some sort of backend in place. I’m building a $4 million apartment complex. I just need to get rid of this thing and stop thinking about it. So we get a couple of that from TV ads too. Anytime you’re on TV, I do feel like everybody thinks that it’s kind of like you have a Lamborghini or something. These guys are super wealthy because they’re on TV. I try to keep a level head about it and stay humble, I guess, because it’s very easy when you’re getting that many and you’re making a lot of money to think that it’s just you and it’s not. It’s the process.

Welcome to the Real Estate Masters podcast where we bring you the top real estate investors in the country. If you also want to be in the top 1%, you are in the right place. Listening to podcasts like this is exactly what helped me to scale my real estate investing business to seven figures, flip over a thousand houses and more importantly, step out of the operations of my business over a decade ago so I could start and grow other businesses. So get ready to learn from the best and start building a business that works for you and not the other way around. Enjoy.

Koda, thank you so much for taking the time. I know you’ve been in the business for a while, but for the people listening that don’t know you, kind of give just a quick intro of yourself.

Yes, sir. So from Fort Wayne, Indiana, I’ve been in the business since 2018. My background was in car sales, so I did car sales for about six years and then I read the book Rich Dad Poor Dad and transitioned into real estate in 2018, was doing both for a couple years until real estate pulled me out and I’m like, “Man, I think real estate makes more sense at this point.” So yeah, that was basically how I got in the business and transitioned over.

Awesome. Awesome. I know you’ve been a TV client of ours for a while now. What did your marketing look like before you added TV into the mix?

So we started off, the first thing we did was bandit signs. I don’t know if you’ve seen those like we buy houses, but we used to just go throw those up. We used to climb poles and get the ladders and stuff. A good friend of mine actually just got this contraption that he had with a staple gun and a rule install, just throwing them up. So that was awesome. That was how we started. From there we tried Philippines, cold callers, stuff like that. That didn’t work very well. We always did mailers. Those always did fairly decent as long as we pulled the right list, sent to the right people. We did that pretty consistently. Just here recently, that’s not been doing as well though, but we did that since probably 2019, 2020. We tried basically every kind of marketing there was. But then when we found TV, we actually found TV through Ryan Pineda. I was just at Wealthcon and then Tony was walking and then we just started talking and I’m like, “Wow, that sounds like a no-brainer.” And the entry fee for Indiana was decently low for us. I was like, “All right, we’ll throw some money at it. ” And that’s kind of our strategy with every kind of marketing that we do. We’ll throw five, 10,000 at something, see how it does. And if we get an ROI, then we’ll keep doing it after … We try to get it three months to six months depending on how many leads we’re getting. I mean, if we get one deal in three months, it’s a no-brainer. We’re keeping it on. And so yeah, that’s kind of a transition. We just kept fund money at everything and then TV we found that and that kind of boosted absolutely everything. So that was a game changer for us.

Yeah. And I know you were on TV a little bit before working with us. What was the main difference between running it direct with the stations versus going with someone like us or us specifically?

Yeah. Well, it’s funny because your guys’ maintenance 10X TV and that’s literally like down to a TY app. And I think we were getting around 500 spots is what you call them or whatever and you’re just with one station. And then for the same marketing spend, we could get 50,000 spots across three different ones. So it was crazy when we talked to you guys and what we could do. The TV guy, I think he gets paid commission or something. He was pretty upset whenever we switched over. The views that you guys got us for the ad spend was literally 10X. I thought it was going to be like 2X, 3X, and it was literally 10X. I’m like, holy crap. So that was a game changer on just getting us out there. And then before people were like, “Yeah, we saw you on TV.” Now I see people who I don’t know who are like, “Oh, we saw you on TV because they’ve seen us that often.” So it’s definitely working. And again, like I said, the coolest part is it boosts all of the other things that we do too, like radio. We do radio with you guys actually and then direct mail, whenever they see that now, they also say, “Oh, those are the guys that we saw on TV.” Whenever we call them, they’re like, “Oh, we’ll sell you on TV.” So it just adds a credibility. And then the other thing that was really cool about what it did was it also made us more credible to other investors. So when we’re buying deals from wholesalers, they’re like, “Dude, these guys are legit.” And you’re like, “Why?” Well, because they’re on TV, which I don’t know why the persona’s like that. It’s kind of like having a Lambo in a way, really. They’re like, “Dude, this guy can buy.”

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Well, what do you think the biggest change is in the business since starting TV? If you had to put it down to one thing

I would say brand recognition is probably the biggest difference. People know us from TV, they see us. A lot of times I would say car salespeople, investors, they don’t get a bad rep, but when you can see someone put a face with a name and now they can go look me up. They can make, “Oh yeah, that is a guy I saw on TV. They can see my values. They can see my posts.” I think it just helps a lot with the person feeling like they actually know you. But yeah, the branding was the biggest difference. And then something else that you guys pointed out that was super helpful as well was pulling the phone number across the whole time, having the logo up the whole time, all of that stuff. We were just putting it at the end of the commercial as a call to action. And then you guys just gave so many good tips that honestly helped with other marketing channels too of having the phone number. We actually changed ours. I don’t know if you saw that, but it’s 777 sold. So that’s been super big. But basically overall just brand, that’d be the one word I would say.

I love it. And has your team changed at all since starting TV?

Well, yeah, now they’re on TV too. So whenever we put them on, oh my gosh, dude, that was like a confidence boost. They’re like, dude, we’re on TV now and then we’re getting recognized from other people and they’re also the guys that are going to the appointments. So yeah, I definitely think that it helps them feel like we’re more official just because we all are on TV now.

I love it. You mentioned the cost of TV earlier that it wasn’t as big as you thought it was going to be. Have you seen that be the most case in most areas? I mean, a lot of people think TV is going to be a hundred grand a month minimum. Kind of talk about the cost of TV and what you thought before being in it versus now.

Yeah, it depends on where you’re at because there’s places that I think it is expensive like Phoenix, Arizona. I know it is like 100, 50 to 100, but most places are not as expensive as what I thought it was going to be. Honestly, it was way cheaper than what I thought. And the ROI that I get based on the other channels that I do, it’s one of the best. Now, I think you should have some backend stuff to capture them like lead forms and a carrot lead thing or something, like some place to actually capture them because they don’t always just call, but they do see us on TV usually first and then they go research us and then we’re capturing and following up and doing all of that stuff. So I would say you have to have some sort of backend in place, but as far as the cost goes, yeah, I don’t want to say it was super cheap because I don’t want people coming to 41. Hopefully we’re going to give some exclusivity, but it was way cheaper than what I thought it was. And honestly, yeah, we just ramped up, I think what was that, three, four months ago and we’re like, “All right, let’s start spending even more.” And I think that just every time that we spend more, we see a better ROI, which is just crazy because there’s other ones that we’re maxing out. And honestly, even direct mail, we’re cutting for right now and just like, all right, let’s just take that out and let’s not do it until we hear that maybe it’s coming back around again. Because I think that marketing’s always kind of in these cycles and direct mail just seems like it’s in one of those cycles. I don’t know if that’s been your experience at all or have other people said anything like that, but …

Yeah, we’ve seen up and down with direct mail in general just with our operation. We know people in the market that do well with it. We just have been kind of very hot and cold as well. What kind of sellers are you seeing coming from the TV commercials?What is their main pain points? What are you seeing being their motivation and quality as well? Yeah,

That’s a good question. I’m probably too far removed now to answer that question just because I don’t even know the properties. I don’t know the conversations we’re having anymore, which is kind of a cool place to be at. I know that from whenever I was taking the calls and all of that stuff, it was the highest quality leads. They’re very motivated. These people want to sell and they want to sell usually within 30 to 60 days. A lot of times it’s older folks who are maybe they’re going to retirement homes. I know one specific one, it was an older couple and they had a stairs up and stairs down. The laundry was downstairs. Man, I don’t know why they were living in this home because the doctor literally said they’ll had heart condition and she was breathing so slow and they said she should not be walking upstairs. Well, the bathroom’s upstairs, he bedroom’s upstairs and it was like scary watching her and we ended up buying that property and they moved to an elderly home, which was pretty cool and pretty rewarding to see that happen. But I would say usually it’s probably like 60% situations like that. The other 40%, it’s a mix between foreclosures. Sometimes there’s just wealthy people more like, dude, I don’t want to mess with this home anymore. I had a guy that he owned a bunch of apartment buildings that he was building and he had a duplex and he’s like, “Dude, I don’t care.” He’s losing like 40,000 on it. He’s like, “I don’t give a crap.” He’s like, “I’m building a $4 million apartment complex. I just need to get rid of this thing and stop thinking about it. ” So we get a couple of that from TV ads too.

I love it. Do you have any specific deals that you can remember where you really saw the TV credibility pay off?

I mean, I would say in those two examples that I just gave, those were two big ones that they were like, okay, the walking guy was like, “Okay, these guys are legitimate because they were on TV. And so he knew we were going to show up. He knew we were going to pay cash. He knew that we were going to be able to perform and we weren’t just some people talking.” And then the elderly people, I mean, I would say they definitely think you’re credible on every on TV, but I feel like they’re usually pretty easygoing in general anyway, but wealthy people usually are not. They’re very distrusting. So I would say that guy is a big a testament to being on TV more than it was the elderly people, honestly. But yeah, again, anytime you’re on TV, I do feel like everybody thinks that it’s kind of like you have a Lamborghini or something. They’re just like, these guys are super wealthy because they’re on TV.

Yeah, 100%. Have you gotten anything besides deals that came from TV, like private money or special treatment or anything of that nature?

I would definitely say the wholesalers bringing us more deals. As far as private money, I’ve not had anybody call us for that. That’d be pretty cool though. Maybe we’ll call from the podcast though. So if anybody wants to launder anything like that, then then reach out. But no, I haven’t had anybody reach out for anything like that. We have people call us all the time for contracting. They call us and say, “Hey, you need work.” So it’s always good to find contractors that way, but I can’t think of anybody else who really called that was like a super big benefit.

Gotcha, gotcha. What about your margins? Tell us about your margins, TV comparing to your other marketing channels. Do you see any difference in spread?That’s

A good question. I would have to look that up if you want to give me a second, I can.

Yeah, no worries.

I know that the ROI was like four times, but let’s see what it was. I think this last year in 2025, we spent around around $100,000 and we made it right around 400 in the same year. So we track based on the year spent and the year that we actually received the money. Gotcha. Our average spread on TV for 2025 was $37,674. That is crazy difference. I think our other biggest one that I’m seeing here is 19,93, so let’s call it 20,000. That one’s from direct mail, but we’re only doing a 1.14 return on direct mail and then 18,000 on Google pay per click. I mean, nothing’s even close to the average spread on that. I don’t even know what was. Dang, I need to bump it up. That’s crazy.

Yeah. Most people see a big gap between their other forms versus TV. It just typically gets a higher return for sure. When did you kind of realize that you had become the authority in your market?

Oh man, that’s a tough question because I’ve always felt like the underdog and honestly, I kind of keep that mentality no matter where I’m at. I feel like I always like to think like that, but I would say it really, when I started seeing other people’s numbers and even Pinedas, I’m like, “Dang, how many deals he did and versus how many we did,” which he was my mentor. I guess I was his greatest student in some ways. It was probably 2023. I think we did I think around 200 maybe under contract and then 2024 we did 300 and something and then same thing in 2025. But I would say in 2023 it really felt like that was when we started dominating the market. I started to notice what other people were doing who were like the teachers who I always looked up to like Josh and Tiffany High, Ryan Pineda, Brent Daniels, all of the guys. I’m like, “Dang, our business is now doing about as many deals, if not more than them.” Now they might be more profitable and stuff, but it’s still kind of cool for quantity because that means that more people are thinking about us in this market. And so that was probably about the time was 2023. But again, I don’t like that mentality. I still think of myself as the little guy that has to keep learning, keep growing, keep developing because I also know that it can go away real quick. What God gives, he can take away real easily. So I try to keep that in mind whenever I’m thinking about it because I’ve also seen myself get to the point where I think I’m the cause of making the money and then it’s not me, it was the process that we followed that got us there. But once you start to do a lot of deals, you start to think that everything you touch just turns to gold and it’s just ego.And I’ve noticed that happened too where we just started buying bad deals. And so yeah, I try to keep a level head about it and just stay humble, I guess, because it’s very easy when you’re getting that many and you’re making a lot of money to think that it’s just you and it’s not. It’s the process.

Yeah, 100%. Well, what would you say to an investor that’s maybe relying on texting or cold calling or honestly direct mail or anything else besides TV? What would you tell that person that just is scared to make the leap? Yeah,

I’ve been telling a lot of people actually, all my friends anyway, to definitely get into it because I mean, texting I think is going to go away. Cold calling is definitely going away. There’s no doubt about that. Robocallers, I mean, dude, I literally found a way to get in my Verizon app and turn it off because I started getting bombarded. So people are, they’re annoyed by it, but TV, they’re not annoyed. They literally want to talk to you. They see you, they’re like, “Oh dang, let me call that guy.” So I would say if you actually want to be a legitimate business owner and you want to dominate the market and do it for the long term, then I think it makes all the sense in the world. If you’re going nationwide and you’re just kind of like cherry picking and stuff, then maybe it doesn’t make sense. But if you are in a market, you’re planning on staying there for the long term, I think it’s a no-brainer. And in my opinion, one of the only ways to get really branded in a market where people are like, “Yeah, that’s the guy for this market,” from what I’ve seen anyway.

Yeah. Do you think TV is mostly for bigger markets, smaller markets, mid-markets, or even to work for investors everywhere?

I mean, I think it’ll work everywhere. Again, on the bigger markets, it’s going to be obviously the amount of money that you got to spend. I don’t know because I’ve never done a bigger market either. My experience is only in small and medium size, but I think it’s a no-brainer for a small and medium size. But big, I would think it would work if you got 100K a month to spend.

Yeah. And most big markets get away with 20 to 25 for sure. But when it comes to the major ones, it might be a little bit more. But what would you tell your past self before jumping on TV? What would you tell your past self?

What would I tell my past self? Man, I would’ve probably just said do it sooner. Honestly, that would’ve been the first channel I would’ve done because in 2018, we probably could have got away with 3,500 and ad spend, 1,500 bucks a month. Man, we would’ve made it back then. And in 2020, I think the amount of deals that we did … Yeah, we did 22 deals in 2020 and that was back when it was just booming. So if I would’ve started in 2018, we could have really took advantage of the opportunity that was in front of us, but I didn’t know obviously at the time, but I was still buying just as many as I was. I wasn’t scared like everybody else was. I was like, “F it. We’ll just keep buying them.” And everybody was unloading, but people didn’t know who we were back then. So if I would’ve got a start in TV way back then, man, we’d be in a different spot right now, which we’re still on a good spot. So I have to remember that too. I’m grateful for where I’m at, but obviously whenever you look back, you’re like, “Dang, if I just done things a little different, but I’m still happy with where we’re

At.” Yeah. I know we’ve talked a lot about marketing and specifically TV, but kind of want to flip the script to a different question. A lot of people, they define the word success differently, they strive for it differently, they measure it differently. I’m curious how you define the word succes, how you measure it and how you strive for it every day

Yeah, success. Oh man, that’s a difficult thing. The way that I would answer it for myself personally, I would say growth because when I’m growing, I feel successful. If you’re making progress, I feel like that’s successful. So some people start at 400 pounds and if you’re down 30, I think that’s success. I don’t think it’s like necessarily the destination, which is where it gets difficult though, because as a business owner, the only thing that matters is the result. That’s literally it. That’s the only thing that sellers care about. That’s the only way that we get paid is based on the result. It does not matter your effort level. And so it gets interesting to say what success is on a specific outcome because I only say it’s successful if you got the outcome. I don’t care how you got the outcome. There’s a thousand ways to get it, but if you didn’t get the outcome, then I can’t say it’s successful. So it depends on which context it is, whether it’s in a business context or whether it’s in my personal life. But I would say for me personally, the one that resonates the most is growth because that’s the one that whenever I’m feeling really defeated because I’m not getting the results and I feel like I’m so outcome based, that’s when I go back to it and I feel better because I also have this weird thing where I’ve accomplished a lot in my life, especially for the age that I am. And I just took a month off. I was down in Florida and the team was running things and man, I’m like, “Man, I have all my personal debt paid off now.” It’s like it’s an interesting spot to be in because I’ve been working all this time to get to this point, but now I’m here and I have to kind of change my mindset of what success is because to me that was the outcome I wanted.And now that I got there, it actually feels weird. It kind of feels not great because I’m not growing, I’m not striving and now I’m not the underdog anymore. Everybody expects me to win and I don’t like that because then that expectation actually makes me more nervous to fail because everybody thinks I’m going to win. And so I get back into the mindset of like, “You know what? I’m going to fail. I’m going to look stupid and I’m going to grow because that’s how I got to where I’m at. I was willing to look really stupid multiple times. I was just talking to my old business partner, Tony, and he was talking to me, he’s like, Man, whatever you got on Facebook Lives, I was surprised by how well you could speak because I messed up a lot. I did theater in high school, but you just jumped into it. You didn’t really look stupid. I’m like, no, I looked rum dumb and I looked back at my books. I used to send people videos of cars all the time. I’m like, “Hey guys, I got this car for you here. I just want to put a face with a name.” And I took videos of myself all the time. I looked so dumb to angles or in my chair I had to go through being willing to look dumb, being willing to feel awkward, knowing that people were looking at you like, “Who’s the F is this guy thinking something?” And I like to continue to do that. Yeah, that’s what I truly believe success is whenever it makes me feel good. So that’s what I feel like it is. But again, different on the business side of what I … If I’m giving you guys a goal, I’ll tell you if we’re successful by the outcome that you get.

Yeah, I love it. I love it. If you were going to start from scratch today, the business completely goes away, but you get to keep all the knowledge you’ve learned over the years. If you were going to rebuild what you have now, what would you focus on first?

What would I focus on first? Just because of my skillset, I think that people, whenever you’re going to build a business, you have to look at what are you good at? And then build that, in my opinion, build it first. Some people say get somebody else who’s good as something else. I like to build whatever I’m good at first. So I would get an acquisitions guy, pay him 100% commission and just get him hunting. I did, I’ll give whatever percent I need to to get the thing going. He’s going to be going out and generating some income. I’ll teach him how to sell and all that stuff along the way. And then I start marketing just right away, start bringing him leads. So he’s hunting already. I taugh him how to hunt. I taught him to go foreclosures to do that list, but also I’m going to start bringing in more leads that way. And then just as soon as you start building it, those two things, that’s really all you need, especially for wholesaling. But honestly, wholesaling, this is something that I actually want to specify because everybody’s like, “Why do you always only talk about wholesaling?” I don’t always talk about wholesaling, but that’s the first step in my opinion to absolutely any extra strategy you want. Whether you’re going to novation, whether you’re going to subject to, whether you’re going to flip, whether you’re going to keep it as a rental. The first step is getting a good deal, which you could wholesale, you can do whatever you want with it, but you need to get a property if we’re a good deal upfront. So that’s what I would focus on is just bringing the team member on and getting them going.

Yeah, I love it. I love it. Well, Dakota, thank you so much for coming on today. If this does resonate with you and you want to become the authority in your market and do something that 99% of investors are not willing to do, go to 10xtv.co to apply and see if your market is available. Dakota, again, thank you so much for coming on. Everyone, thanks for watching and we’ll see you next time.

Yes, sir.