Michael Pinter: (00:00)
The transaction really takes place, not between a buyer and a seller, but between a seller’s attorney and a buyer’s attorney. The contract gets generated by the seller’s attorney, but if you are selling your time, you better be making a lot of money per hour for it to make sense because you want to spend time with people that are important to you. I think there’s a misconception in the market for some people that are in this business for a short time, that rates are gonna go back to 3%. I don’t think they’re ever going back to 3%. If they go down to 5%, that would be great. Spending time with your kids, with your spouse, grandchildren, to me, is infinitely more valuable than anybody you’re gonna get in exchange for it. If their rent is super cheap somewhere with it in their parents’ house, they can sit and wait.

Michael Pinter: (00:37)
But if they need to be somewhere else, then they’ll buy. I think AI might be changing things because people have gone to Google for a long time and there’s a reason why.

Noah Kesslin: (00:46)
Welcome back to the REM podcast. My name is Noah, and today we have Michael Pinter. Michael, thank you for coming on, . You know, I know we’ve known each other for a long time and I’m, I’m really excited to hear more about just your backstory and and what you’re doing in New York. I’m curious what drew you to real estate?

Michael Pinter: (01:06)
I was working in the same mortgage company for 17 years, from 1997 to 2013. That company’s still around, by the way, a lot of mortgage companies that I was aware of at that time after 2008 and I were not around. And, um, I saw a lot of investors making a lot of money, you know, after 2008, some making money even before 2008.

Michael Pinter: (01:25)
And I even started investing ’cause it was crazy easy to get to get loans. And then, uh, started realizing that I, I think I wanna start focusing more on real estate, especially when after the crash it got really, um, overregulated. The business got very different and it became very annoying for me. So I said I gotta get outta here.

Noah Kesslin: (01:45)
Awesome. Cool. And what does your business look like today?

Michael Pinter: (01:49)
So today I am marketing direct to seller, which I didn’t do the first four years I was in business. I started at 2017, closing between three and five deals a month. Half the deals I close, I wholesale the other half, I close on most of those I hotel, which means I do no work or minimum work to them, and then a decent percentage. Unfortunately, I still rehab. When I first started, the first four years, I wasn’t marketing direct to seller.

Michael Pinter: (02:11)
I was buying everything at auctions or from bank owned, uh, realtors. And I got renovated every house. That’s what I did for four years. And then in 2017 I started realizing I, the two parts of the business that I hate are dealing with contractors and dealing with building departments, especially around here where there’s a, every block is a different building department you have to deal with. So I decided that I really want to buy cheaper and buy marketing direct to sellers. I can do that and I really would love to get to zero construction. I will never get to zero construction, but like I usually try to avoid the major renovations, but I still end up stuck with them on occasion.

Noah Kesslin: (02:47)
Gotcha. Are you keeping any of them or are you mostly like fix?

Michael Pinter: (02:51)
I have a couple of, a couple of buying holes, but like ones where I can sort of, it’s a legal one family I can get, I can get a change to a two family. I can extract value somehow. It’s very hard in the New York area to be cashflow positive on like a single family, almost impossible because the price points are very high. So your mortgage payment’s high and the taxes are very high. It’s also difficult if you have one tenant, uh, property because in New York, if somebody stops paying it takes a very long time to get them out. So, um, I like multi-families at least two units and I’m interested in buying some more buying holds outside of New York where eviction will be easier and uh, the numbers work better.

Noah Kesslin: (03:28)
Gotcha. I know you’re in a couple different markets. What’s the main difference between let’s say Florida or Texas to to New York?

Michael Pinter: (03:36)
Okay, so I wouldn’t say there’s one main difference. I would say it’s like a different planet. And I think people don’t even understand that in 49 states, when a buyer meets a seller and says, I’d like to buy your house for X dollars, and the seller says, yes, the buyer can slip a contract across the table, sign it, and you are, you are now in contract and the seller’s contractually obligated to sell you the property. In New York, it doesn’t work like that. The transaction really takes place, not between a buyer and a seller, but between a seller’s attorney and a buyer’s attorney. The contract gets generated by the seller’s attorney. So if I, when I need a seller and we agree on a price, the next question is do you have an attorney to draw the contract? And because of that, that changes everything obviously. But that’s not even one of the most shocking differences. Standard EMD earnest money deposit that you give on contract in New York is 10% of the purchase price. I’m buying something for $400,000, they’re gonna expect me to give a deposit of $40,000. It gets worse. There is no inspection contingency period in New York. So there is no way out of a contract in New York, I have every single contract I’ve ever gone into, I had to close on or I had to assign.

Michael Pinter: (04:39)
The way inspections work in New York is people go, how does that work? And this is because of attorneys, is that the attorney doesn’t wanna bother writing up a contract until the inspection is done. So when we agree on a price, let’s say when I’m selling a retail pro property and the, and the, and the buyer agrees he does the inspection, then if he wants any repairs done, it’s put in a rider to the contract. So there are no contingencies when I buy a property ever and when I sell a property, usually there’s only a mortgage contingency if they don’t get approved for financing. But there is no inspection period where I can go into contract, try and find a buyer if I wanna wholesale it. And then if I can’t just say to the guy, sorry. So most people when they hear that, can’t believe it.

Michael Pinter: (05:12)
Especially with the EMDs that we have to give. Now, I don’t always give 10% EMD, I can very often negotiate it down. I’m, I’m going into contract today on something where I’m giving $5,000 even though the purchase price is $600,000. But it’s a very complicated place and most newbies who are looking online and and listening to some guru try it in New York and just doesn’t work now unless they get some sellers completely unsophisticated. But it’s very, very rare. So those are the differences in New York and I think, I think it makes it very, very, very different in New York. When I first got to investor fuel six or seven years ago, I got up on stage and I was like, I don’t know how to deal with it takes so long. And the attorneys and the deposits and everybody looked at me like I had four hits.

Michael Pinter: (05:49)
I was the only guy from New York. And I quickly realized I’m the only guy with these problems. These are not problems that you have in the other 49 states. So that is the difference in New York.

Noah Kesslin: (05:57)
That’s crazy.

Michael Pinter: (05:58)
I’ve been on podcasts where people thought I was joking, but I promise everything I just said is true.

Noah Kesslin: (06:03)
Yeah, especially since how high prices are in New York. Correct? Yeah. Wow.

Michael Pinter: (06:09)
There are certain advantages to New York. If I can I maybe I can tell you some of those. So yeah. Okay. So because it’s very hard to get into contract, it is impossible for the seller to get out of contract. So there is no contract fall through unless there’s a title issue. So that’s good. Sellers cannot back out of a contract. The first deal I ever wholesaled in 2017 was for over a hundred thousand dollars assignment fee.

Michael Pinter: (06:29)
And the guy was a really angry seller and I asked my attorney, I’m like, this guy is gonna see how much I’m making a flip battery. He goes, he can be off, but he is got no other options. He’s gotta sell it to you. So, and because they’re always represented by an attorney. So I’ve had people call me and go, I changed my mind or uh, I want more money. And I say, just speak to your attorney. And when they do, they usually call me back and ask me when, when we can close. That’s an advantage. Also, the assignment fees and the profits are usually bigger because the price points are higher and there really is insatiable demand in New York, right? Because there’s so much going on. You know, if somebody closes a factory, it’s not gonna change it. There’s really rentals and properties.

Michael Pinter: (07:05)
Nothing sits. There was really almost no, I mean the median price in Long Island is, has gone up crazy numbers over the last few years. Like it just hasn’t gone down. So I dunno if it’s gonna stay, but there really is almost insatiable demand for rentals and, and purchases where we are.

Noah Kesslin: (07:21)
Geez. Yeah, it seems like, uh, it might be a different planet for sure.

Michael Pinter: (07:26)
It’s different, it’s like a different planet. It’s really, it really is. And it is. What’s hard is that I have a team and I sort, and in New York really things move slow, but outside of New York things move fast. If you’re not really on top of it, you’re gonna lose a deal. And it’s hard sort of training them. Like if this is a deal in Florida, you better really jump on it. In New York you have more time.

Noah Kesslin: (07:44)
Yeah, that’s very interesting. For sure. I definitely did not know that about New York. That is kind of cool that they can’t back out though. I mean, you know, that, that is nice.

Michael Pinter: (07:54)
You really can’t, don’t we add unless both sides agree.

Noah Kesslin: (07:56)
Well, what would you say is the why behind what you do?

Michael Pinter: (07:59)
I like building things. So for me it’s like building a business. You know, when they say, when you want to figure out what your purpose is, the couple of things you can do is you can think about the things in your life that you just lose track of time. So when I’m like building something, even like furniture for Ikea or a toy for my grandchild, I lose track of time. So I think I like building and building a business is my why. Not even to leave it, but I mean it’ll be nice, but to me it, it’s building something up and I like, and that’s what what really works, resonates with me,

Tony Javier: (08:28)
Want to get motivated sellers that nobody knows about. Introducing 10 X tv. If you want to create credibility in your market, find deals that nobody else knows about and crush your competition, you need to check into TV commercials. It is the new buzz in the real estate investing industry since we introduced it several years ago. I’ve been using TV commercials myself for the last 12 years and it’s absolutely crushed it. So if you wanna learn how to get on TV and to do something that little to no people are doing right now, go to claimmymarket.com. Again, that’s claimmymarket.com, we usually only work with two investors per market. So if you’re interested, reach out to us and book a call to see if you can claim your market before anybody else does. Now back to the show.

Noah Kesslin: (09:10)
I know a lot of people get into real estate to have time freedom and enjoy life and, and and really just be able to enjoy. What would you say is the biggest component to having a work life balance? I know you have a lot of kids and grandkids, you know, what would you say is the main part for yourself to kind of take a balance in that?

Michael Pinter: (09:32)
So I have always, time freedom is a big deal for me. Like I worked for the same company for 17 years and they were pretty flexible, but still, I had to ask permission if I wanted to go somewhere. So I left that 2013. So now we’re 12 years later. Time freedom is amazing, right? Not asking somebody permission when you want to go. I have three outta four of my grandchildren are in Los Angeles and I, my wife and I see them once a month.

Michael Pinter: (09:53)
So either we fly out there or they’re coming into us. So to me it’s a big deal. I think that family has to come first. If you told me if I could trade X amount of time with my family and make more money, I probably would take time with my family. I see people, tons of people, clear workaholics, a lot of people in my neighborhood, very successful people, right? Some are professionals like doctors or who are lawyers, but they are never home. And to me it’s, it’s not, it’s not worth it. I don’t want, I would never trade places with them. I think that if you are selling your time, you better be making a lot of money per hour for it to make sense because you wanna spend time with, with the people that are important to you. I mean, how emotional we want to get.

Michael Pinter: (10:31)
But like my father died when I was eight and um, and my mother died when I was 30. I, I thought I was old at 68 because my father died when he was 49. But I, there are people who die all the time. A guy in my block just dropped dead this week and nobody die saying I wish I spent more time at the office. Right. Spending time with your kids, with your spouse, grandchildren to me is infinitely more valuable than anybody. You’re gonna get in in exchange for it.

Noah Kesslin: (10:53)
Yeah, my mom’s dad died when she was nine, so definitely has always had that, that family, you know, need to be around family, which is, is I’m happy. It was instilled in me for sure. What do you think the main problem that you’re trying to solve is when you started your business?

Michael Pinter: (11:10)
When I started my business or, or now. ’cause when I was starting my business, I don’t even the first four years I was in business, I didn’t even understand the concept of direct to seller marketing. I didn’t know what wholesalers were. They sounded like, uh, knuckle dragging Neanderthals who tried to make a few dollars without providing any value. I didn’t understand how it worked. I remember in 2007 when I started realizing that I have to start marketing direct to seller, it changed the whole way I look at the business and for the better. And also realizing around that time that I don’t need to, I, I thought erroneously when I started buying properties in, in 2013, that I needed to do everything to the house. The house had to be perfect because my house had to be the best house. It was a reflection of me and nobody should be able to say no to my house, which was incredibly shortsighted and foolish, right?

Michael Pinter: (11:52)
Because there was a million reasons why people could say nor has, even if it was perfect and it wasn’t plenty of times. But even if it was, they may not like the location. They may not like the layout, they may not like the people won’t buy your house sometimes because of fwe. It’s not, it’s not facing the right direction or the address is different. There’s a million reasons why somebody could not buy your house. What it took me a while to learn was that what I was doing, this is a mistake I think a lot of people make, is I was making decisions about what work to do in the house based on what I liked or what a designer told me or what somebody told me. And what I realized after years, took me years is that the one thing that I did that I thought was great could be the first thing that the buyer undid.

Michael Pinter: (12:25)
So for example, I bought a lot of Cape Cape Cod homes, a lot of them here and I used to break ’em, make ’em open concept, right? I ’cause ’cause I got into this business from HGTV, from Flip or Flop. I wanted to be Tarica Mua. So I made open concept first floors and like what I started realizing is a lot of these buyers, the first thing they were doing is putting up walls. Like one guy said, I’m putting up a wall right here. And it was a wall that I sit down, I paid like 12, a hundred dollars, $12,000 to put a banner. And I’m like, you’re putting up a wall. He goes, yeah. The one guy I remember was in there and he goes, I cook with curry. I don’t wanna sting up the house, I have to close the kitchen. Another guy told me I want more cabinets I’m putting up.

Michael Pinter: (12:57)
And what I started realizing is that the most important thing that I thought was born about the house could be the one thing that a, that a buyer undoes right away. So then I started rethinking and I’m like, let me do as little work as possible. Let me see how the market responds to it and then let me, I can always do more work, right? So I remember I had a property where I didn’t, in the kitchen, it was on the border and people were telling me they don’t like the kitchen. So then I redid the kitchen. You could always do more work later. So that was the initial problem I had was figuring out what work to do. At this point I’ve gotten be much better at that. I really do know it’s to little work. If I think it’s, it’s sellable at a price that I can make a profit.

Michael Pinter: (13:30)
I’m buying properties where I can make a decent profit hopefully without doing much work to them. My issue today is, is really still getting leads and converting leads. That’s my issue today. Getting enough leads and converting leads.

Noah Kesslin: (13:41)
What trends are you seeing right now in real estate? I know a lot of people are looking at interest rates or looking at, you know, something specific in time right now. What, what do you think? What, what are you seeing right now?

Michael Pinter: (13:54)
So New York has always been much less interest rate sensitive. I don’t know if it’s just the fact that we have higher price points and um, people have more money. I don’t know what it is, but I remember when I was in the mortgage business I did loans in 9% and I love doing them at 9%. ’cause I knew when the rates dropped, I’d refinanced them at seven and the refinance them at five.

Michael Pinter: (14:12)
I think there’s a misconception in the market for some people that are in this business for a short time that rates are gonna go back to 3%. I don’t think they’re ever going back to 3%. If they go down to 5%, that would be great. So on a macro level, are there people who are on the sidelines now because they can’t qualify at the current rates? For sure. There are some. The question is at what point do they get back, right? I think rates are now getting closer to six, which is good. But you know, there are people honestly who believe they’re just gonna sit and wait until rates go down below 4%. And I think that’s never gonna happen. So the market in New York has been very strong. I see a tiny, tiny softening at the highest level. But the market in Florida and Texas where I also operate has definitely softened.

Michael Pinter: (14:49)
Especially El Paso has got, is got hit in 2022 when the, when the rates went up. And a lot of Florida is seeing a lot of price reductions now and the time on market going up. So I think, you know, no, and I get a lot of, uh, emails from wholesalers and I would say for years I never saw one price reduction and now I would say 75 to 80% of the ti of the properties that I get if I just sit and wait, the price gets reduced. So I definitely see that going on. I don’t know how long the market’s gonna go down for. I don’t know how much it’s gonna go down. Anybody tells you the deal was full of crap. But definitely softer in the markets in Florida that I’ve seen. And definitely softer in uh, El Paso for sure. And I, when I, I speak to a lot of people ’cause I’m part of investor field, which you come to also and people are saying the same thing.

Michael Pinter: (15:31)
Well, the only thing I’m seeing lately in New York is that it’s taking much longer for deals to sell, which is incredibly annoying. And when I speak to other people, they say it’s the same thing going on. I don’t know why it is, it might just be my anecdotal experiences on, you know, on seven or eight deals that just didn’t close quickly. But that’s the only thing I’m seeing firsthand that I can talk about. Really.

Noah Kesslin: (15:49)
When it comes to rates, I’m, I’m a big like, principal balance of like what it’s gonna cost. I’d rather take a lower cost. For instance, I bought a Harley and it was like a 17% was the loan amount, but I got the bike for a really good deal and I knew I was gonna refi it later for 7%. I did it, you know, it was $24,000 bike and I got it for 19 grand and then I refied it two months later. You know, what’s your thoughts on higher interest, lower, you know, actual purchase price and then refin later.

Michael Pinter: (16:22)
So when it comes to for 30 year mortgage interest rates, there’s no way to know where they’re, where they’re gonna go. Are there people who are thinking like, you thought that I, I don’t mind paying six point a half or 7% now because I’ll refinance later. Sure. There’s no way to really know if it’s gonna go down or if it’s gonna go up. So everybody’s attitude towards debt is different now with housing it’s different, right? Nobody needs a Harley, but somebody needs to move to New York ’cause their job’s moving in there or somebody needs to move in there, they, they need to move in there. And I found usually that people will, will suck it up and pay a higher rate thinking exactly what you’re thinking. Eventually I can, I can refin it.

Michael Pinter: (16:56)
The truth is, as someone who’s in the mortgage business, seven years financing, especially New York is crazy expensive, is mortgage tax in New York is closing costs are ridiculous. I get a hundred percent financing on my, on my purchases and I usually have to still bring 30 to $35,000 in closing costs to the table. So that’s insane. So do people, some people think, think of it that way for sure, and some people are like, ah, I don’t know, I can wait. It depends really what their situation is, right? If their rent is super cheap somewhere or in their parents’ house, they can, they can sit and wait, but if they need to be somewhere else, then they’ll buy. They will buy. Yeah, that’s fair.

Noah Kesslin: (17:28)
For someone new coming into real estate, what’s one piece of advice you wish you knew when you started?

Michael Pinter: (17:34)
I wish I would’ve started marketing direct to sellers earlier. I didn’t understand how that works. I think marketing is really a momentum based process that people don’t realize. And very often, I mean, we see even experienced people in our industry dabbling in a, in a, in a marketing channel, going in it for three months and saying it didn’t work. It’s like, especially in New York, you need, I need a year, year and a half to even see if the thing works. So I think you need to pick a marketing budget that you can stick with for at least a year or more and then commit to it. You know, I can’t tell you how many people say, well I tried direct mail for two months and it didn’t work like that. That doesn’t even make sense. And I’m sure it’s the same with tv, right? It’s something you have to sort of let take hold and it and it builds on itself.

Michael Pinter: (18:13)
So my advice would be get some money together for marketing and if you have 30 grand, don’t spend $10,000 a month for three months. Right? Spend $3,000 a month for 10 months or $2,500 a month for 12 months on whatever your plan is. And, and do that. And again, I people that I respect in the business who have businesses bigger than me who have successful businesses, I hear them coming out to investor fuel and saying, I started X marketing channel and it sucked. And then when, when, when we ask ’em, how long did you go do it? They say three, four months. And I’m like, how can you really, how can you know, you can’t know. You need more time.

Noah Kesslin: (18:44)
Yeah, it could have been seasonal, it could have been, yeah, a whole bunch of stuff.

Michael Pinter: (18:48)
Anything can happen in three months. Like even marketing channels that work for me can have three months where they’re not so great. So that may be the three months you picked, right? It’s so it’s, there’s so many factors involved. Oh yeah.

Noah Kesslin: (18:58)
What are you doing for marketing right now?

Michael Pinter: (19:00)
So I’m doing a lot of pay per lead, right? With a few vendors. That’s where I buy somebody else’s pay per click or SEO leads. I am, um, I have some, a cold calling service that I use and I’m still doing direct mail.

Noah Kesslin: (19:14)
Okay. Which one’s the best for you right now?

Michael Pinter: (19:16)
It direct mail has been pretty consistent. It just takes a long, the, the cash conversion cycle in New York is, if I told you what it’s, you’d, you’d, you’d have a heart attack. It takes forever. So you need to commit for a long time. And, um, so you know, you can get a deal now. You make money on a deal now where you got the lead 25 months ago. So, but that’s, that’s most consistent. Gotcha.

Noah Kesslin: (19:35)
Yeah, cash conversion cycle’s huge. I mean, you know, that’s, that’s one thing that we do see with, you know, in TV in general is just quicker. But direct mail is, is really strong in most markets. I, I know a lot of people in investor fuel, it’s like, you know, there’ll be a, a handful of people that it doesn’t work. But again, some of them try it for three, four months. Some of them, some of them give it a year, you know, and, and it doesn’t work.

Michael Pinter: (20:00)
there are markets I’ve tried where it didn’t work. Um, but like younger people don’t understand it, right? Because they’re like, I don’t read my mail and I throw out everything that comes. But most of the people we buy from are older, older than me or my age and older and they read the mail.

Michael Pinter: (20:14)
So the mail works, it’s a physical thing, it sits there. I just, I you get called, you can get calls three years later on it. And it works again at, at some point maybe where the young people of today become the older people, uh, 30 years or 40 years maybe direct mail will be less effective, but until then it works. Old people read mail and, and it’s, it’s something that shows up in their mailbox.

Noah Kesslin: (20:34)
Oh yeah, a hundred percent. How do you see real estate investing evolving over the next few years or changing in any way? Do you see it changing in any way?

Michael Pinter: (20:44)
I think AI might be changing things because people have gone to Google for a long time and there’s a reason why Google and Facebook and all these major internet companies are spending billions of dollars. I think I read somewhere that I Facebook poached a guy and paid him $200 million to come to them.

Michael Pinter: (21:02)
Like, what the hell is that? The answer is that so much of what we do is gonna be based on ai. So whereas I Google now sell my house fast in, uh, in Long Island, I may be going to chat GPT or Perplexity or Claude or any of these other ones and saying, who should I sell my house to? And they’re gonna give one answer, right? It’s different than Google. Google gives you a whole list. AI is gonna give one answer and there are people who are gonna say, okay, like I’m going there. So getting to be that answer on AI is something that I’m looking into now and how to do it. I’m not a hundred percent sure. And the truth is, even if I focus all my attention audio, that could change in five minutes because these things change just like Google changes all the time.

Michael Pinter: (21:41)
But I think that AI as a, uh, as an answer tool is gonna change the way we do real estate. I don’t know if any other part of real estate is really gonna change. I mean, we’ve been saying that there’s no more agents because you don’t need them. And on some level it’s, that might be true, but I don’t see that going away. This NAR settlement a couple, was it a couple years ago or a year ago, really didn’t change it much just changes what shows up on the M ls, but everything’s pretty much the same. There’s still a buyer’s agent and a seller’s agent on most transactions. So I don’t know what else could happen. Like AI cannot really show you a house. AI is gonna get better. I’m sure it’s gonna get better, but I don’t know if it’s gonna change any other part of real estate.

Michael Pinter: (22:16)
Maybe it’ll affect title. I don’t, I don’t know. Maybe there’ll be a way for AI to get title quicker or better than we get it now. But like some of the counties I work in, like you still have somebody just to walk in there and look at microfiche and look at some crap and sit there, you know, on systems that are a hundred years old, like AI’s not gonna be able to do that on maybe on newer counties where everything’s, where everything’s automated. But the truth is you get, you get the, if it’s automated, then the title companies get you the title quick too. Title in New York takes forever. When New York’s an, I mean, again, I could spend seven hours just on New York’s. Why New York’s different, but New York is the only state where you have to run title and then you have to run departmental searches, which means housing and building search and, uh, tax search done separately from another company.

Michael Pinter: (22:54)
That company goes to the county and gets that information. So like in certain towns here, that could take three weeks. So you don’t get title for a month. Like that’s just the way it is, right? If you want title in California, you can get in two days most places. So maybe ai, AI will help with that, I don’t know. But I think AI is gonna change some of how we market for sure.

Noah Kesslin: (23:11)
Yeah, I’m such a people person and I’m such a communicator, like when I dial a number for, uh, a business and I hear that it’s AI picking up, like I hate it to my bones.

Michael Pinter: (23:24)
I hate, I hate it too.

Noah Kesslin: (23:25)
And I, I had a feeling, but like a lot of people are saying that AI’s gonna take over, jobs take over, you know, sales take over. I’m such a believer in that people wanna be sold by people. Would you agree with that or do you think that there’s a possibility that AI does take over like some of those key roles?

Michael Pinter: (23:43)
So AI stands for artificial intelligence. It’s, it’s getting better. Like if you listen to AI agents now versus nine months ago, they’re light years ahead. So if we can project nine months later, you may not even know if you’re on the phone with ai. So I think as it stands now, I can’t stand it. I know immediately, but I think it’s gonna improve. So I don’t know if it really gets a lot better then you may not care. Right? I, it, it drives me bananas also, but like, it only drives me bananas because I feel like I’m not gonna get the answer to my question. If I really felt like this artificial intelligence agent could really answer my question, maybe I’d be happier than waiting on hold for someone to pick up someone working in her, in her trailer with her kids crying in the background.

Michael Pinter: (24:21)
Like, I get that too, right when that happens, but at least I think they’re gonna help me. But if the AI agent can really help me may maybe it’s better. I don’t know. It’s not, it’s not there yet. It’s definitely not there yet.

Noah Kesslin: (24:29)
Yeah, that’s fair. When it comes to the word success, you know, everyone kind of labels it differently, talks about it differently, thinks about it differently, what does success mean to you and what are you trying to get to?

Michael Pinter: (24:41)
As I said before, time freedom is a huge deal, right? Me being not, not having to ask somebody permission to go to California or go on a conference is part of what I define as success. I think success is also, um, to me watching a business grow and watching it improve and making money while we’re helping people, right? I think a lot of people look at people that are not in our business, look at our business as some predatory, we steal from widows and orphans, right?

Michael Pinter: (25:06)
But when, but we, we only get paid if we solve a problem. So if we can solve a seller problem and get paid sometimes very, very well, I think that real to me, that’s the ultimate success, right? If you work for a company, even in a major company and even get paid tons of money, it’s very hard to see the results of what you do as if some small cog in a wheel, but we can see the results right away, right? When the seller thanks us profusely for helping them, like sometimes they even cry that they, that they got out of a situation that they didn’t, didn’t want to be in. And then we make $80,000 also like, to me, like how can it be, how can anything get better than that? So, um, yeah, I, I I like, I like that a lot when we get to help people and get paid to help people.

Noah Kesslin: (25:43)
Oh yeah. Win-win situation for sure. Who has been the biggest influence or, you know, mentor for you in the space?

Michael Pinter: (25:51)
So my switch in 2017 from buying at auction to marketing direct to seller happened from, uh, Brad Chandler. Brad Chandler had, I had a, I had a call with him at that point and he had a huge influence on me that really changed the whole course of my business. But since then I haven’t had one major, uh, influence. I’d say as a whole it would be investor, the investor, fuel, family, right? I go, I go, I almost never miss a, a meeting in six and a half years, seven years. The only two I missed were both ’cause they happened right when my, each of my daughter’s weddings were. But I, I get, I get a lot out of going to the meetings, talking to people and uh, and I think it’s, it’s had a big, it’s had a big influence on me just listening to people talk and talking to people when I’m there.

Noah Kesslin: (26:33)
That’s awesome. And, and investor field might not be the right fit for everybody, but what would you say to the people that don’t want to join a community no matter what the community is like, just joining a community?

Michael Pinter: (26:46)
I think it’s a really lonely business if you’re not, and when I started, I had a partner, we broke up before COVID, but the benefits I get from the community are, there’s a few of them, right? So the first is, I find it very therapeutic, right? Because I’m having problems. I find that a lot of people are having the same problems. That makes me feel better. ’cause it’s not my fault. I remember one of the first meetings I went to my, my, I was doing PPC and it fell off a cliff and I thought it was my provider. And then 12 people got up and said, PPC fell off a cliff around the same time.

Michael Pinter: (27:11)
So I knew it was a Google thing that made me happy. Also, people that had your problem and solved it is tremendous, right? You find a way to solve your problem, but, but also being able to help people, right? Finding someone who has a problem that you solve and me helping ’em is good. So for me it really makes being a real estate investor a much, a much, much happier place to be. And it’s not just banging my head against the wall. You see, I bought a, a heavy bag here to hit. I got that in asset to go over that. I have bag as I’m just taking it. But it’s, it’s a frustrating business, right? It’s, it’s a simple business, but it’s not an easy business. And there’s a lot of days where you want, I punch that bag pretty hard. So having a community and I, and, and I don’t just get benefits from the community.

Michael Pinter: (27:47)
When I’m at the quarterly meetings, I go to some of the other meetings too. I probably meet them five or six times a year. But you can, the fact that I can get on the phone and, and call someone and say, you know, I remember you talked about this. What do you do here? Uh, is a big deal. Even the Facebook group is helpful. I find when I post things there, people are helpful. So having people to bounce problems and ideas off of is, uh, is a, is very, to me, is much is really good for your mental health, I feel.

Noah Kesslin: (28:12)
Yeah, I agree. I love the punch of pack by the, but that’s sauce.

Michael Pinter: (28:17)
I always wanted a heavy bag. I always wanted one. And then I bought a house and it was in the basement and I said, you’re not ke you’re not taking that right?

Michael Pinter: (28:23)
He goes, no. I go, okay, great. I had to that thing’s heavy, I had to carry it into my truck and then I had to have somebody install it, but it was worth it. I love it. Hitting it makes me very happy.

Noah Kesslin: (28:34)
I love that. Where can people learn more about you and connect with you?

Michael Pinter: (28:38)
So I’m all over social media, YouTube, my channels are called Finding Discounted Property. ’cause I do coach and that’s really my niche is helping people find discounted property. But you could find me Michael Pinter all over the internet. If anybody wants my office number, I can give it out. It’s easy to call me. It’s five one six two oh nine two oh one oh. Anybody can call me. And my, I think on all my YouTube videos, my office phone number’s there and my email’s there. I’m ver I’m very easy to find. If you Google Michael Pinter real estate or my even Michael Pinter.

Noah Kesslin: (29:06)
Awesome. Awesome. Well, Michael, I appreciate you for coming on. Um, thank you guys all for listening and uh, we’ll see you next time. Thank you very much.