To a motivated seller, that’s not why they’re going to sell you the offer because it’s a cash offer. It’s what comes behind it. It’s the features and the benefit. The system, all it is, is you have something, a flow of the way you do things that just works over and over and over again. That’s why it’s important to pay attention to trends, what’s going on. This is something we do in OmniGrip too, is pay attention to what’s going on in the market to leverage which solution is best. So putting on your business acumen hat without having a better word of it and figuring out how to prioritize what you need to do. What do I need to build out first? Success is doing your duty your utmost ability. I don’t really relate success to business success. The point of it is just having conversations and talking to people, being open about learning.

What’s going on everyone? Paul, we have from REI Omni Drip today. Paul, I’m really curious because a lot of our viewers are going to be real estate investors. What are you seeing from a drip campaign that separates what you’re doing from anyone else that may be doing the same thing or something similar?

Yeah, yeah, sure. So there’s a few things, but I’ll just name top of mind what I have top of mind right now. And that is one is we’re following up with a little bit more substance than just direct questions. So what I see with old drip sequences is that there’s a difference between salespeople and marketers. There’s nothing bad about either one, but usually there’s a way of doing things differently between the two. Typically, what I see with drip sequences is they’re kind of built to just chase and ask a direct question. Direct questions are great with face-to-face conversations. That’s how you peel the onion back. That’s how you get to know the seller a little bit more. But when it comes to marketing, when it comes to follow-up, just asking a direct question like, “Hey, are you still interested in selling?” Over and over and any kind of variation of it, because they can have ChatGPT spin a bunch of different variations of it.

(01:49)
It gives no value, gives no substance to the seller. And if the seller’s not at that … 80% of the sellers who aren’t selling at the moment, who don’t sign a contract with you, there’s something else going on. There’s some kind of other boundary. So obviously they’re not ready to sell yet. So if we, instead of quote chasing, we’re following up with a little bit more substance. And we can get to some details of what that is. What do I mean by that? But adding a little bit more meat to our follow-up rather than just direct questions over and over again. We want to be there with credibility, build trust automatically. I’m talking about all automatically with the drip sequence. Until that seller finally says, “Hey, I’m ready to move forward.”

Gotcha. And I know you were an investor for a long time. Was there a certain point that you were like, “This is really needed in the space?” When did you really-

Yeah. I mean, I started off probably in 20 … I started off 2015, 2016. I mean, I was just a blue collar worker, a knuckle dragger. And so I just dug holes for a living. Literally, that’s what I did. I worked hypeline construction. And then I got into welding. I didn’t get too much of my story, but then I became a welder and a foreman and dump truck driver, all the works of that. But at the same time, I was also … I had Podio. I was just neck deep into the whole wholesaling arena. And I was in Southern California, which was a hot market back then, still is even hotter today. And so when I say hotter, I mean harder, difficult, sophisticated market, lots of investors there. And so I remember sitting in my … I had Podio at the time. That’s all we had available time.

(03:26)
There wasn’t anything fancy that you have today. And so I did direct mail, spent a lot of money on direct mail. I was getting calls, but I had no sales background back. And I remember sitting in my car to do follow up because I had to get away from the kids and the crying babies and just going through my list. And then I’d go and I’d say, “Hey, Mrs. Sally, I called her two weeks ago. I’m just going to skip over her. Maybe she’s not ready to sell.” And then I’d go down my list making a bunch of excuses, having my feelings take over and justify what I should be saying or doing. And deals were missed because of that. So kind of fast forward, because of that problem, I dove into copywriting and that became kind of my forte.That’s what became my second love, I guess you can say.

(04:12)
And so I wrote for Trevor Mock of Carrot for a bit. I was writing land packages to sell hotels in Vegas. And then I had my own land clip and business. I launched my own lanthropy business, put those skills to test, and that did fairly well. And so today, the whole drip sequence, how it came about, the whole Omnidrip thing, how it came about, is because investors are coming to me to ask about building something that’s a little bit better than what they have, the out of the box thing that most CRMs have today, because it’s no offense to them, but I mean, the CRM builders, they’re not marketers, they’re not copywriters. And they just kind of spin it with … Right today, they just spin it with ChatGPT, which usually ChatGPT just takes from the averages and doesn’t really consider, unless you really prompt it very well and take your time to do things really well.

(05:05)
Anyway, there was a problem in the market and I solved it about three years ago to came up with my own system of following up that’s a little more substantial, a lot more substantial than what people do. Taking my skills of writing emails, I did a whole lot of email marketing. I still do a whole lot of direct mail marketing, taking those things, planting it into drip automations for real estate investors.

Yeah. Why do you think so many investors kind of overlook that part of the business?

I think it’s just they don’t see the … That’s a problem with every business because I work with other industries too. So it’s just leads. Leads is the main thing. And that’s true just to a point. You need leads to fuel the business. Absolutely. So it takes a lot of time to build out a backend system, which is probably the most profitable thing you can do is to build a backend system. As long as you’re getting leads, that’s important because it’s two parts of the equation. I had my own business selling information a while back and I was selling books and courses and things like that. And I built a solid backend system, but didn’t have a good lead generation system. So you do need both. But anyway, yeah, I think it’s just the leads are sexier than the follow-up. Yeah.

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What do you think the most common misconception is about what you offer right now?

That anything will do. And that’s true to some extent. If there’s a brand new guy, brand newbie coming into the business, his focus should probably be getting leads. And so it’s true to the extent extent. But once you start getting things rolling, you have a couple of deals here and there. Just plugging anything that the CRM has, especially in today’s market where today’s market is … It’s harder, I think. I don’t know if you agree, Noah. I mean, I’m hearing different opinions about people, more so on the opinion of, hey, things are a lot harder right now in the market, depending on what market you’re operating in. But in today’s market, it’s a market where you need a solid operation to do better, to do well, to not close your doors. I’m already hearing about people closing their doors. And so it’s not now about how fast you can get to the lead.

(07:58)
That’s part of it. It’s not where you can get the best leads. It’s how well you’re operating on the backend of things. Follow up is part of that. So if you’re just taking the out of the box ordinary, what everybody else is doing, you’re not optimizing your operations on the backend of things.

Yeah. Can you share specifically some of the key traits that you set up drift campaigns for? I mean, personally, I’m curious. I mean, when we talk before this.

Yeah, definitely. So we have about 28 different sequences, and it’s all very easy to follow. People think that’s a little wrong, but once you look at it, it’s like, okay, that’s easy to follow, that’s easy to find. I haven’t had any problems with people understanding it, but what we do is from the beginning, the cadences, it depends on where the seller’s at in our pipeline. So for example, if a seller tells you no over the phone because your offer is too low, and if it’s a landlord, we have a place for them. And the reason why I do that, this is important because people have tried to emulate this and they just create an offer too low landlord sequence to just throw the title, but it’s not the title that does the selling. It’s what’s behind it. So what we do with that, what I do with that is I put my copywriter hat on and well, I know from door knocking landlords, from being in the midst of that, and being a tired landlord myself, there’s certain things that we can leverage.

(09:36)
See, a lot of investors, and I did this same thing, is that we take cash offer for granted. Cash offer doesn’t really mean anything. To a motivated seller, that’s not why they’re going to sell you the offer because it’s a cash offer. It’s what comes behind it. It’s the features and the benefits. That’s a copywriting 101 term, features and benefits. So I try to employ as many that have to do with the situation. So if it’s an offer too low landlord, well, I know then that means it might be shopping around. I might be looking for other solutions. They’re also dealing with tenants in house. So those are all three objections, features and benefits that I can answer right in that text. And I know that the next call to action for that is to revisit our offer or get a new offer. It’s like it’s three or four months down the road.

(10:24)
So that’s an example of why I create all that stuff. So if it’s a vacant house that hasn’t made an offer or hasn’t been on appointment with us yet, well, there’s things I can leverage there. I know the problem solution, I know the problems of a vacant house lead. I know that they haven’t been to an offer yet, so that’s our first thing. We need to get them on the phone with us for an offer. So there’s a whole bunch of them and we can go down, we can talk about more of them. There’s a selling delayed, meaning if a seller just, they’re on the fence or just like, “Hey, I’m just really not ready. I have so- and-so objection. I have so- and-so waiting for this person.” Cool, that’s fine. Now it’s a slower cadence. So cadence is important too. It’s a slower cadence, putting a little bit more value, more articles into it because if I just bombard them, they’re going to unsubscribe if there’s no value being given.

(11:15)
For closures, probates, I used to door knock those two. That’s longer sales cycle. So in those, I am being front heavy with articles with value. Hey, check out this article that we have on … We have eight different articles, but I was going to say, sell your house to stop foreclosure or to sell your house into probate. That’s an easy one, but there’s a bunch of other value pieces that we add into there as well. So yeah, there’s 20 some, 26 I think is different sequences for those.

Awesome. Awesome. What do you think separates top operators in the space, real estate investors to everyone else in your experience?

I think they have more pieces to the puzzle than … And I don’t want to think that a newbie … I don’t want to … If somebody’s brand new, and I’m sure there’s a whole host of different people listening. If somebody’s brand new, that doesn’t mean you need to rush and start building out a Google presence, building out backend operations of having tight sales script, having a sales flow that you use over and over and over again. But I would say the top operators, they have a … I hate using this word because it’s kind of over, I don’t know, cliched now, but having a system, but the system, all it is, is you have something, a flow of the way you do things that just works over and over and over again. And then when you finally have that, so this is for you for anybody who’s brand new, you’re trying to figure out a way of doing things in your market and how you operate.

(12:53)
I know it sounds like vague, but for example, if I used to do … What I used to do quite a bit for marketing is I get my leads, but I’d also do just like once, I think it was twice a month, I would do a voice blast, ringless voicemail blast. At the time when you can do it, it’s easy to do that. And then that would get me … I don’t remember the percentage. I think it was like 3%, I don’t remember the exact … 3% would respond back. Cool. So I had a number. I had something that I can work with. It’s like, okay, if I feed the system this, I can get 3% response when I add this part of my follow-up. Now don’t take that and say, oh, Paul said 3%. That was like 10 years ago, almost 10 years ago.

(13:42)
So I don’t even know what’s working for Ringo’s voicemail, but what I’m getting at is you have something that is repeatable. So that’s what I think the top operators are. They have something that’s repeatable. So I don’t know if that … Does that answer your question, Noah?

Yeah, for sure. And I definitely agree with your statement that it’s harder now than it used to be. I just feel like there’s a lot more competition now. I mean, a lot of people are getting an old ceiling, a lot of people are getting into real estate for sure.

There’s more tools available. It’s just that easier … It’s easier for anybody to get into the business. So the barrier entry is much lower. Tools are a lot cheaper now. So back when I started, it was just you could cold call, you could do direct mail and you could door knock, you do networking, all that, but now you have a lot more options that are cheaper for people to start. You have all these cold calling agencies now and AI tools that make speed to lead a lot faster. So there’s a caveat to all that. I mean, I’ve heard investors, top operators aren’t using it at all because of the messiness it can create. So they’d rather have real people and they’re pulling more deals because of it. Not saying that you shouldn’t use AI, but I’m just giving you an example. There’s different ways to do it.

(15:07)
But yeah, there’s a lot more competition because it’s easier for people to do business now.

Yeah. And I feel like that’s also market dependent. I feel like some markets people care about that stuff and in some markets people probably don’t as much, but I would definitely agree with you on that.

That’s true. So in the direct mail world, because I do a lot of direct mail now, you’ll get people who, like the handwriting robots, there’s markets that respond better than that, while other markets maybe that don’t really care, they just want to get their right cash offer. The response is no difference in it. And in different unique selling propositions. So for a lot of markets we push, local is a great selling point that you’re local and you obviously can prove if you say you’re local and then they Google you and your office is out of state, obviously you just lost all credibility. But there’s some markets that love that. I have a client, OmniGyp client that is in Alaska, Anchorage, Alaska, and he’s probably the only local guy there, everybody else are national. So he really focuses on that unique selling proposition that he’s local and people love it.

(16:31)
People out there love it. It’s Alaska, so they want more local business while other markets don’t care. Places in Chicago don’t really care. So anyway, that’s … Yeah.

Yeah. I definitely think people in the South care, people in smaller towns care. I feel like major cities, there’s investors from all over the place in every market, in every different niche, not just real estate. I mean, there’s outside investors from everywhere if you’re talking about New York or are you talking about Chicago? I mean, they’re just used to outside investors versus those smaller towns, it definitely makes a difference.

That’s why it’s important to pay attention to trends, what’s going on. This is something we do in OmniGrip too, is pay attention to what’s going on in the market to leverage which solution is best. So what I mean by that is if cash offers, and there’s been markets where cash offers is blown up. And when I say markets, I mean just the national market where cash … There’s so many cash offers now on the market. And then I’m not saying this is true for today, but there has been times where cash offers been blown up where you put the house in the market and you’re going to definitely get a handful of cash offers on it. Well, if you pitch on your direct mail piece or in your follow-up, everything is … You just say cash offer over and over again, you’re watering yourself down.

(17:59)
It doesn’t mean anything. So then you got to shift of what … Okay, so what is important? Okay, well, maybe no commission. Oh, you’re not going to pay any commission on this. Today’s market, when days on market is increasing quite a bit, in selling markets, you’re going to focus on selling it in two weeks.

(18:17)
So yeah, you have to kind of shift as the time goes. So that’s a copywriting 101, maybe a little more advanced. That’s not advanced. It’s a pretty easy concept. People should know

About that. Yeah. Yeah, for sure.What do you see as the biggest challenge right now in real estate?

That’s a good question. That’s a really good question. I think it’s the operation side of things, nailing down the operations, getting everything in place because it is much harder. It’s harder for the new person to start. So I’d say it’s the challenge of if you’re … It’s now taking off the hat of your solo. And I have plenty of clients who are solo and they’re doing well. I’m not saying if you’re just solo and that’s it, but putting on your business acumen hat without having a better word of it and figuring out how to prioritize what you need to do. What do I need to build out first? Okay. If you’re brand new, obviously leads is going to be the most important thing. So what are you doing on a weekly basis to generate leads? What’s your KPI on that? Okay, I made a hundred cold calls.

(19:25)
I made, I did this, I did this for generating leads. Okay, it’s not working. It’s been two months and I’ve done enough volume, and then shifting from there. I’m kind of speaking vague here, but what I’m getting at is because I’ve been there as a business operator where you have so many things on your plate, on a calendar of like, “I have to do all these things.” It’s really getting down to what’s the most important piece you need to do to build your operation. One thing at a time, because most people I think listening to this don’t have a team that can implement quickly for you. And you’re the company’s best implementer, so you have to prioritize what needs to be done. I don’t know if that makes sense. I think today it’s about getting your operations in place, but also at the same time, being a good business, having good business acumen.

(20:20)
I don’t know if that word, I don’t think I’ve heard anybody throw that word around, but having a good business sense.

Yeah, for sure. When it comes to the word success, everyone has their own definition for it. How do you define success and how do you strive for it every single day?

In life, I think that definition is different than business, but in life you’re asking about life, I think it’s more about doing your duty, whatever your role is in life right now. So if you’re a father, you’re doing your duty as a father, and that’s probably your most important job that you have there, your most important role that you have there. So that’s what I think success is doing your duty, your utmost ability. I don’t really relate success to business success. That’s me. If you asked me three, four years ago, I would’ve probably said something along the lines that tied into money or seeing progression in your business. I think that’s all vanity.That’s my own faith because I’ve been more in, and we’re getting more into depth about my own personal life than business, but more so my faith has guided me more into a life that’s more about fulfilling my own.

(21:46)
So something deeper, something with more meaning.

Yeah, I love that. If you were going to restart from scratch, I know you’re not doing a ton of investing right now, but if you were going to restart a wholesale or a flipping company, whatever the case may be, from scratch today, what would you focus on first?

Focus on people and focus on getting to know as many people as I can in my … If you’re going local, as many people as I can locally, I’d focus on conversations. So the KPI I would measure is how many conversations have I had? Good conversations with people that … I had a conversation yesterday, a call with somebody who didn’t … He’s not in real estate. He was a guy that’s an agency. It was just a virtual coffee type of thing with him. And that guy was such a go- giver and I was just blown away of how much … He introduced me to this person, to this person. I was blown away by that. And that guy, I’m going to remember for life probably. From the day one, he hooked me up with all these different people, these referrals, gave me access to all these types of things.

(23:03)
I’m not saying if you don’t have anything, well, everybody has something they can offer. I’m getting at is I’d focus more on the conversations like that and being more about what can I offer this person? I remember when I started, I was probably more focused on getting my piece, getting my pie, a slice of pie. And so I think if somebody’s starting brand new as a wholesaler, if they want to do a JV with somebody because they’re a little nervous, which is okay, and they don’t know really what to do, well, they sometimes ask for too much because if you go and ask the local guy who’s done hundreds of deals and he’s older, and you want to ask not only for his time, his education for free, but then you want a large piece of the deal, the balance is not … There’s no balance there.

(23:59)
So just the point of it is just having conversations and talking with people, being open about learning and offering your time, et cetera.

Yeah. Who has been the biggest influence in the space or mentor for you?

In real estate or just in general? In real estate, it’s hard to answer because I have to go back to my … There was a local investor that nobody knows. His name is Jim. I’d say he was just my mentor back in the day. He’s really older guy and just you won’t find him online at all, but he was probably my biggest influence. And in marketing, that’s hard to say. There’s a lot of different guys, but there’s a lot of old copywriters that I would listen to. Nobody would probably pick up … Eugene Schwartz, Breakthrough Advertising is a book that I regularly go back and read. Ben Settle’s another guy today. He’s not old school. He’s alive today and he still does a whole lot of marketing stuff. He’s info publisher. I listen to quite a bit of his stuff, but yeah, those are some of the guys.

Awesome. When it comes to OmniDrip, who is the ideal client for you? If you were to picture your ideal client, what would that look like? What would their team set up be? What would their follow-up setup be currently? Kind of describe that for me.

Yeah. For one, so little layers of steps. So they definitely have to have a CRM. If you don’t have a CRM, I can’t do anything for you. Two is somebody who’s done deals. I can’t say I’ve never sold it to anybody or helped anybody that never done a deal, but I usually, if somebody comes on the call with me to go over strategy, to go over what I offer, and if they’ve never done a deal, I’m going to push them away from doing this because they need to be focusing on something else rather than the backend stuff. Like I told you, there’s different layers that, especially when you’re solo, different layers you need to work up towards. But then there’s the guy … So guys that are doing a deal a month, maybe even every other month is fine, up to … Some of my clients are doing 400 deals per year, so that kind of range.

(26:21)
But if you’re doing one or two deals per month, that’s probably the range where I get the most people.

Gotcha. Okay, cool. Well, where can people find you? Where can people learn more about you? If someone is interested in OmniDrip, where can people come and chat with you?

Yeah, sure. So down on the bottom people can see it, but reimnidrip.com, R-E-Imnidrip.com. That’s my site. You can go there. You can opt in to see some samples. You can see my own sort of drip for my own business. And then we can jump on a call if they want to. You’ll see a calendar right then and there to jump on a call with me.

Awesome. Awesome. Any final advice for investors looking to grow?

Oh, just keep at it. I mean, I always struggle with those questions, like any final advice, but I mean, just do your duty. Keep at it and hit the pick X every single day.

Awesome. Well, thank you all for watching, Paul. So thankful for you coming on and honestly, we should probably look at doing OmniDrip for our flipping company for sure. So definitely should have that conversation. But again, thank you all for watching. And Paul, thank you so much for coming on.

Thanks for having me on, man. Appreciate it.