Built to Last: The Right Foundation for Consistent Leads shows how a strong brand, TV/radio presence, and values-driven culture create predictable, high-quality lead flow. Learn how Matt Vukovich scaled deal volume, improved margins, and streamlined operations by building the right foundation for his business. From shifting away from cold outreach to brand marketing across TV, radio, billboards, Google, and Facebook, this episode breaks down what actually moves the needle for business owners who want consistent leads and a team that reflects core values. If you’re aiming for durability (not just spikes), this is your blueprint for small and large markets alike.

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Show Transcription:

Matt Vukovich: (00:00)
So we’ve just seen an influx in leads across everything. Even our Google and Facebook performs better than it did. But we’ve definitely had some of our biggest deals come through TV for sure, the nuts and bolts of something. But you have to line up with the core values of our team first. And I think by doing more deals, it allows you to have a better team. It allows you to have better crews working on houses. It allows you to streamline. The last three months have been our biggest months ever. I mean, we’ve hit double digit deals every month and we don’t wholesale. So I mean those are all purchases. What does it mean to always be working on becoming the best version of yourself?

Noah Kesslin: (00:35)
All right, everyone. Welcome to the REM podcast. Today we have

Matt Vukovich: (00:41)
Matt Vukovich with Matt Buys, Indiana Houses.

Noah Kesslin: (00:45)
Awesome. Matt, kind of just give yourself a quick introduction. What do you guys primarily do in the investment world? And just kind of give us a 30,000 foot overview.

Matt Vukovich: (00:55)
Yeah, no, absolutely. Thanks Noah. Yeah, so we’re in north central Indiana. We primarily do flipping. We do some rentals as well. We have a self storage facility. It’s myself and my partner Rob. So that’s primarily what we do. We do direct to seller marketing, we buy everything, do whole tailing and flipping. Occasionally grab a rental here and there. But yeah.

Noah Kesslin: (01:16)
And what did your marketing look like before you added TV into the mix?

Matt Vukovich: (01:20)
No, absolutely. So we were primarily doing outbound marketing. So we started in real estate about eight years ago and we did a whole bunch of direct mail bandit signs, some cold calling, texting. I think what probably a majority of people were doing around that time. And what we noticed, uh, around, uh, shortly during COVID, after COVID, there’s just so many more players coming into the market. It just got extremely competitive even where we’re at. And we noticed we had to differentiate ourselves from everybody somehow. And, and that’s when we decided to really focus on building a brand versus just doing a whole bunch of different types of marketing. So we decided, you know, what’s the best way to do that? And that would be to get involved on TV and, and radio.

Noah Kesslin: (02:11)
Awesome. Cool. And how many le different lead channels did you try before, you know, jumping on tv?

Matt Vukovich: (02:18)
Well, I’d have to think about that. So I mean, I guess we were mostly direct mail, cold calling, texting, bandit signs. So I mean, that’s four of ’em right there, I guess R VMs. So I mean that would be, that would be five. So, and we kind of tapered off all that stuff and, and quit around after COVID and then got into Google Pay for click, Facebook really started building a brand and yeah, and then TV was the, just the next step.

Noah Kesslin: (02:44)
Awesome. What’s the biggest change that you’ve seen since starting tv?

Matt Vukovich: (02:49)
So I would say just a consistent incoming quality leads probably. It just covers all your marketing channels, so a lot of things can be hard to measure and, and that was a big reason we went to just a primary brand phone number. So I know a lot of people have a lot of numbers for a lot of different areas, but we decided to go with just one catchy phone number that we would use on TV and radio. And so we’ve just seen an influx in leads across everything. Even our Google and Facebook performs better than it did for tv. We’ve gone out to billboards and we’re just really seeing an influx of leads from everywhere.

Noah Kesslin: (03:26)
Have you seen it be hard to pinpoint exactly where each lead is coming from due to the one phone number? Or have you guys kind of gone about that?

Matt Vukovich: (03:35)
Yeah, no, it’s a good question and, and it’s something that we go back and forth. So 10 X TV also has a mastermind that we really enjoy. It just, it’s free, it comes with it. And so we get a lot of great value there and I go back and forth with, with some of the guys because I, I used to be that guy that had 40 phone numbers and you gotta track every postcard and every type of postcard and, and all the different things. And it just got honestly exhausting. And I, so yeah, to answer your question though, I mean we can’t specifically track it on everything, but what we do is when people call in, we can ask ’em, you know, how they hear about us and then we have someone from our team go to every single closing and they get a review and talk to ’em in detail about how they heard about us. And you know, we consistently hear the same thing though. And the, and the answer from the our clients is, where haven’t we heard about you? And and that’s what honestly we’re really excited about because people can’t even pinpoint themselves. They see us on tv, they hear us while they’re driving and they see us on a billboard on Facebook at home. So they don’t even know where they heard about us ’cause it’s just everywhere.

Noah Kesslin: (04:43)
That’s awesome. That’s awesome. So you’ve seen a more consistency since you started doing the one phone number. Is that, would you say that was correct?

Matt Vukovich: (04:53)
Yeah, absolutely. So I mean we still have, you know, through your Google and Facebook, you can still track, you know, exactly what’s coming in through those metrics, through form fills and your website and stuff like that. But yeah, absolutely, it’s just rather than, you know, you hit the right postcard or you hit the right list or all those different things, it’s just a consistent, you’re always out there, people are always thinking about you and, and stuff’s always, always coming in. So

Noah Kesslin: (05:18)
That’s awesome. Have you seen a different type of seller, like a, you know, a different type of approach in your sales call since starting tv?

Matt Vukovich: (05:27)
Yeah, so I would say for the most part you’re dealing with a higher level client. My brother’s an investor in our market as well and he does pretty much everything that I don’t, so he’s still cold calls and texts and does direct mail and, and he deals with, yeah, just a different level of client, kind of what we were dealing with before. And, and he enjoys it, you know, it’s a lot, lot more, uh, budget houses I guess I would say. But, you know, he still makes a good profit and, and enjoys doing that. But we really like dealing with the higher client. It’s just there’s less stress, less headaches with it and

Noah Kesslin: (06:03)
Awesome. Has, have you changed your team at all since you started tv? Has your, has your team changed at all?

Matt Vukovich: (06:08)
Yeah, no, our team’s grown quite a bit and, and I think kind of one of those things, just to go back to the higher level client is, is you have to be a higher level company. And that’s why I think, you know, is TV for everybody. I, I don’t know, you have to also rise to the occasion I would say, because those higher level clients are expecting, you know, someone that’s gonna take care of ’em. And, and because of that we’ve had to grow our team and uh, we brought on an operations coordinator, Shay, she’s part takes advantage of the 10 x tv, uh, right hand mastermind, which, which is awesome. We, we love that. And that’s no cost either. And then we also brought on a in-house local, uh, client relations manager. So she takes all our phone calls and you know, those are some things we just had to do because in the past, just having a call center or a VA like that was appropriate. And you know, honestly there’s some people on TV that I’ve heard in the Mastermind that still do those things and, and that’s fine. It’s just for us we wanted to separate ourselves and we saw that the need to have someone local answering the phones and really showcase our brand was essential. Awesome.

Noah Kesslin: (07:10)
Do you feel like you get higher quality deals as well, like margins wise from TV or like, have you seen that at all?

Matt Vukovich: (07:18)
Yeah, no, we’ve definitely had some of our, our biggest deals come through TV for sure. I would say for the most part it’s, you know, just consistent, you know, singles and doubles every once in a while we hit some, some triples in home runs. But you know, even the deals, we had a six figure deal a few months ago and it was actually through a referral. So it was guy, actually a real estate agent that just because of the brand we’ve built through TV and the credibility, he feels comfortable bringing his clients to us. And I went out and, and met with the lady and she’s like, wait, aren’t you the guy on tv? Uh, you know, I’ve been meaning to call you for years, but I just, I’m embarrassed about my house and I don’t want to have anybody out. And so even though it wasn’t a TV lead per se, being on TV is a big part of why we closed that deal.

Noah Kesslin: (08:07)
Awesome, awesome. Do you mind sharing what your cost monthly is for your tv?

Matt Vukovich: (08:11)
Yeah, absolutely. So I mean, we started out and, and I think it was a little scary for me at first ’cause my budget when I started in real estate was like 5,000 bucks a month I think on marketing. And you know, obviously that was 2017 and just kind of grew over time. And so when we started on tv, which was probably several years ago, we were around 10, nine, 10,000 a month I think, and that was probably half half of our marketing budget or so, and now at this point we’re up closer to to 20,000. Awesome.

Noah Kesslin: (08:42)
Was it more or less than what you thought it was gonna be, you know, before kind of talking to us and, and joining the program?

Matt Vukovich: (08:49)
Yeah, that’s a good question. I have to think back. It’s been so long. I mean, honestly, I would probably say it was probably less than I thought. I mean, mean you just see people on tv, you think this is gonna be some astronomical expense. So I would say honestly overall probably less, I mean still, you know, a big commitment to, to take on. Awesome.

Noah Kesslin: (09:07)
Have you seen anything else besides deals? Like have you gotten any, you know, private money or any other, you know, just benefits to TV that you’ve seen?

Matt Vukovich: (09:18)
Yeah, that’s a good question. So we use primarily Hard money. We use avi, we’ve got a great relationship with them and you know, they’re offering 9% money and, and a point, and we really haven’t been able to find any better than that. I’d love to, if you’re watching this hearing this podcast and you got a referral, I’d love to hear it. But, so we haven’t even honestly really stepped into the private money world a whole lot just because we haven’t needed to. And we do so many deals with them because of all the deals we get from TV that I think they give us great rates and perks and things like that. But I think it’s just the overall brand of you as a person and just, you know, every aspect of life. I mean, I was out with my wife and daughters at a, some festivals this weekend and people are like, Hey, you know, aren’t you the guy on tv?

Matt Vukovich: (10:07)
And you know, just start having conversations about different things and, and for us, our core value is really being involved in the community. So what I love is what happened yesterday is somebody’s like, Hey, I, you know, you’re the guy from Matt Vice Indiana houses on tv. I love what you do with RTA here in town, reason enough to act, it’s a, a nonprofit. And so we got to talk about that and we get to dive into our core values. So I think it just being a conversation starter and, and sometimes that leads to more deals and conversations about real estate, but plenty of times it’s, it’s just talking about the community, how can we get involved? And, um, yeah, I really enjoy that.

Noah Kesslin: (10:44)
That’s awesome. I know a lot of people talk about culture and hiring and when it comes to hiring for especially, I mean real estate investing, but just anything in general when it comes to that culture. I know you’re very big on that, you know, a lot of people kind of miss culture and, and they wonder why people don’t stick around. How valuable do you feel like culture and, and just having the same values as the owner to, you know, the lowest person in the company, how valuable do you think that is to not only the hiring process, but just, you know, the culture in general?

Matt Vukovich: (11:17)
Yeah, no, it’s, it’s great question. I mean, it’s, it’s absolutely crucial. I mean, it’s, it’s something I focus on a ton. I mean, just being the CEO of the, the company, I mean, the culture starts and stops with me and, and it’s something I notice going into, you know, businesses or just even big companies. Just one of those things that I see. So we had our EOS quarterly meeting actually last week. And so we went through some of the core values of our team and, and I think it sounds kind of almost cheesy, a little bit to be like, ah, we got core values and let’s talk about ’em and, you know, but just really diving into the importance of like, what does it mean to always be working on becoming the best version of yourself? Like, hey, we can just say that, but like, what does that mean and how does that play out in our life?

Matt Vukovich: (12:01)
So we have goals as a team. One, for example, we go, we do one quarterly, uh, non-profit charity event. So here next month we’re gonna be going with a local food pantry, packing boxes, passing out food, um, shaking hands, praying with ’em. And you know, we’re pretty excited about that. And, and our whole team’s doing it. They don’t have to be there, it’s not a paid, paid event, but they’re choosing to be a part of it. And, and throughout the interview and hiring process, uh, we’re very upfront about our core values and you know, here’s what someone on our team does, here’s the core values that, that they have and you know, how does that line up with, with the core values in your life? And then also coming alongside them. So we do a nonprofit spotlight every month. So we go out in the community, we film with them a video, we boost it on Facebook at absolutely no cost, just to help them out. So we go to our team, we say, Hey, who’s some nonprofits that you’re passionate about? Let’s go out and meet with them. So we go out, we film with ’em and you know, it goes both ways.

Noah Kesslin: (12:58)
That’s awesome. I know that, you know, a lot of people look more towards resumes. Do you feel like you almost like lean into the culture more than experience sometimes when it comes to hiring? And do you feel like that pays off for you?

Matt Vukovich: (13:13)
That’s a good question because I haven’t hired for like a high level position, I guess. Like I know a lot of, you know, people are building out like an integrator or a COO like really high dollar position where maybe resume and background matters a little bit more. So I, I don’t know on that end. But when it comes to sales or you know, anything down from that, I would say we do lean into culture more than anything because I think we can teach that where I think people can’t unlearn the poor habits they have. And if you have the right culture, we can always, you know, teach you the nuts and bolts of something, but you have to line up, line up with the core values of our team first.

Noah Kesslin: (13:54)
Well that’s awesome. Do you feel like, you know, kind of switching back towards, you know, being, being in public and getting recognized, do you feel like people have started treating you a little differently when it comes to appointments? Whether it’s, you know, agents, sellers, other investors, or just, you know, people off the street?

Matt Vukovich: (14:09)
Yeah, I mean, I think so. I think we without a doubt have the best brand in our market. I mean, we are a, a smaller market, but that definitely plays into I think what homeowner who homeowners decide to go with. You know, there’s, there’s other people in our market that are on tv, multiple people, there’s a lot of buyers, a lot of great buyers, a lot of good companies, you know, that. And we never speak poorly about anyone. If we go on an appointment and there’s competition, we say, Hey, there’s, you know, they’re great guys too. Whatever you decide to do is is totally fine. And, but when they go to make that decision and they’re looking into the Better Business Bureau and they’re reading about our company and our, and our core values and, and seeing what we do in the community and, and we don’t do it for those, for those reasons, but, um, that naturally I think leads people to wanna go with us.

Noah Kesslin: (15:01)
That’s awesome. When it comes to other people in the same market as you on tv, I know a lot of people, a lot of people’s kind of rebuttal to wanting to start TV is like, Hey, there’s already, you know, two or three guys in my market doing tv. Have you noticed that there’s, you know, plenty of deals to go around if you think about other channels like direct mail or, you know, texting, I mean there’s hundreds of people in each market that are doing it. Have you seen that it is, you know, kind of, you know, enough deals to go around?

Matt Vukovich: (15:29)
Yeah, I would say so. I mean, there’s, I mean there’s someone in our market that’s a 10 X TV client, so you know, there’s, yeah, there, there’s always enough deals for everybody. I mean, we don’t approach things with a scar mindset. I know that’s a common thing that, that a lot of people do. And, and, and I understand I guess where that comes from, but just for us, we have an open hand mentality, you know, stuff’s gonna come and go pass through it. And, and I think people see that, you know, we hear some crazy stories about what people do on appointments, even people who are on TV already about how aggressive they are with sellers trying to, you know, force them to, to sign or, or blowing up their phone or, or whatever it is. And, and we’re just like, Hey, you guys do whatever you wanna do. Like if you wanna work with us, awesome, we’re here for you. And if not, no problem. You know?

Noah Kesslin: (16:21)
That’s awesome. How do you think TV has impacted your margins on deals? You know, I kind of asked it earlier, but you know, a little bit different. You know, a lot of people say that they’ve seen bigger deals when it comes to tv. Have you guys seen any of that as far as, I know you said that a lot of doubles and singles, um, and a couple triples and home runs, but like the average size of those deals, have you seen them be a little bit bigger with tv?

Matt Vukovich: (16:47)
Yeah, I mean, I would say if you look at everything, it probably is somewhat bigger overall, but for us it’s probably just the, the amount of deals really is, is the biggest, is the biggest factor. So I mean, I think, I think by doing more deals, it allows you to have a better team. It allows you to have better crews working on houses. It allows you to streamline all the other aspects of your business, which is then gonna, you know, save you money on all your operations, which, you know, of course flows back into your, into your profit.

Noah Kesslin: (17:17)
Oh, that’s awesome. I know, you know, you’re big in the community, big in, you know, donating and that kind of thing. Has, has being on TV maybe created or, you know, given you any unexpected opportunities or partnerships that you hadn’t had before?

Matt Vukovich: (17:30)
That’s a good question. There’s been a lot of really cool things that have happened, for sure. So I would say one, we were filming our radio commercial, it was probably, oh, maybe a year, year and a half after being on TV that we decided to start radio. It was probably about a year ago. And, um, we were in there filming the commercial and you know, they were familiar with, with us just our brand and being on TV and everything, they knew who we were. And so we were filming the commercial and it was the local children’s hospital was there, it was like their big, you know, fundraiser day. So I mean, it was like a huge thing. McDonald’s, um, hospital down in Indianapolis was here. So anyway, so they called Rob and I into the studio ’cause they heard that we had, you know, both our, we both have daughters and when they were younger, had been in the, in the hospital at the Ronald McDonald and House. And just having that experience and being able to really share that on the radio, I, I think that was, uh, that was pretty cool and, and definitely unexpected.

Noah Kesslin: (18:29)
That’s awesome. When it comes to your experience and what you would tell someone else, I know this market’s been a little tricky the last couple months, and al almost this entire year’s been, I mean, pretty up and down really. So, you know, what would you say to someone that is relying on something like texting or cold calling or, or any other strategy that might not be working or, you know, I know you guys have had some really record months this month when, you know, we talked to some other people at Mastermind and they’re, you know, super slow. You know, what would you tell someone in, in that position, or maybe someone like your, your brother who’s doing that kind of thing. Like what would you tell someone like that for what you’re seeing?

Matt Vukovich: (19:11)
That’s a good question. Well, no, I tell my brother to, to stay over there. He, he’s, he needs to keep, no, but it’s, um, yeah, no, the last three months have been our, our biggest months ever. I mean, we’ve hit double digit deals every month and, and we don’t wholesale. So, I mean, those are all purchases. It’s a good question. I, I think it depends on who you want to be. And, and that’s why I say TV isn’t for everybody because if you’re trying to cut corners or, you know, be an anonymous buyer or just do things as as affordable as you know possible, but you know, then, then I would say TV probably isn’t for you. You know, TV’s for the person that wants to really set themselves apart from everybody, uh, that wants to be ahead of the curve, that wants to build their brand and really wants to take the next step in their business. I think you can only go so far with the texting, the cold calling and, and all that stuff. I, I think if you really wanna elevate your business, you gotta make that, that decision to go on, go on TV and, and radio.

Noah Kesslin: (20:11)
Gotcha. A lot of people think that TV’s really only for bigger markets, you know? Do you think, obviously you’re in a smaller market, so kind of can can figure where this question’s going, but do you feel like TV is only for bigger markets or, or can it work for investors elsewhere?

Matt Vukovich: (20:27)
No, of course, we’re in a smaller market and we’re having success. I mean, I, I don’t know what, I don’t know the numbers I guess is what I’m looking for, but I would say we’re in one of the smallest markets in the US I think of people that would even consider tv. So, you know, we’re not even in one of the top few cities in size in Indiana, which doesn’t have much to begin with other than corn. So, yeah, I mean, you can have success in any market. I mean, I think you can honestly make the reverse argument that you’re gonna have more success in a small market because you’re gonna be one of the few people willing to spend the money to do it. And you’re also gonna have more of that recognition piece. I mean, if I was in Phoenix or LA or something like, I mean, would I get recognized? I don’t know, maybe, probably not a whole lot, but, you know, we’ve got 30,000 people in our city, you know, so it’s totally, totally different. I mean, I, I think the level of credibility gives you, I mean, it is way higher actually than a big market.

Noah Kesslin: (21:25)
Yeah, totally fair. I I, I, I agree with that a hundred percent. What would you tell your past self before you started TV to now? Like, what, what would you tell yourself back then if you could go back maybe, I don’t know, four or five years before you click the, the press go button on tv, what would you tell yourself back then?

Matt Vukovich: (21:42)
Yeah, it’s good. I mean, I feel like it’s a loaded question. I mean, I guess there’s only one answer, right? Like, just start sooner, but it sounds so cliche, but yeah, I mean, hindsight’s always 2020, right? I mean, it’s just the quicker you can get to the, the finish line, the the better. And I think the sooner I would’ve realized that TV and, and focusing on branding would be a part of that, the better.

Noah Kesslin: (22:04)
Yeah. Yeah. That’s totally fair. Well, uh, you know, Matt, I really appreciate you coming on and, and having a conversation with me. I had a lot of fun. I appreciate you coming on. Good to see you as always. You know, if, if this resonates with you and you want to become an authority in your market and do something that 99% of other investors aren’t doing, please go to 10 x tv.co. That’s CO no m to apply and see if your market’s available. Matt, I appreciate your time. Yeah, great talking to you as always. And, um, any last remarks?

Matt Vukovich: (22:37)
No, thanks for having me, Noah. I’m really, uh, grateful to be here, grateful to, uh, yeah, my Lord and savior Jesus Christ for these opportunities. Just being alive here, able to experience these things today. I’m just really grateful and blessed. So thank you.

Noah Kesslin: (22:51)
There we go. Amen. Thank you, sir.